Network engineering is a tech sector devoted to maintaining the connectivity of networks in terms of data, voice calls, videos and wireless network services.
There is a strong demand for network engineers, and it is unlikely to go down, given their role. There is also a shortage of qualified professionals and because of this, a career in network engineering is a great career option with high rewards and excellent opportunities.
But like many tech sectors, it is still male-dominated, so how can female employees stand out from the crowd?
We get the insight from Maddy Norris, Principal Consultant for Hamilton Barnes. Maddy talks to us about the misconceptions in the network engineering sector, industry role models, career advice and interview tips and much more.
Maddy is a rising star in the tech recruitment world, working as a Principal Consultant for Hamilton Barnes, the leading provider of talent solutions to the Network Engineering space.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in as always I am Katie batesman the content director at chicane code and
today we are discussing how you can stand out from the crowd as a female in network engineering now you won’t be
surprised to hear that there is a shortage of qualified Professionals in this area and because of this a role in
network engineering is a great career option with high rewards and excellent opportunities but like many areas in
Tech it is still male dominated so how can female employees stand out from the
crowd now thankfully I have the wonderful Maddie Norris principal consultant for Hamilton Barnes with me
today to discuss some of the misconceptions in the sector and more welcome Maddie
thanks for having me Kaylee I’m looking forward to it I’m excited thank you thank you for coming along we’re really
excited to discuss this topic we haven’t had it on our podcast as yet so I’m
super excited to check group with you and before we get started can you share a little bit about yourself and your
background please of course so I graduated from University in 2020 so during the midst of covered
um I was pretty unsure about what I wanted to do on top of the fact that you know everyone’s like you’re never gonna be able to get a job you know I was like
oh so I was pretty disheartened whilst on my job hunt um I got a job at Hamilton Barnes so
we’re a recruitment agency we specialize in network engineering um just through a one of my friends
um so I started on the fiber team initially I did about seven or eight months on that team and then I moved into IP so since 2020 I’ve been promoted
three times I’m now a principal Network consultant and I recruit in the IP space for the likes or BT uh Vodafone and
different uh internet service providers UK wide wow you’ve already been promoted three
times amazing and and like many other women we hear a lot of ladies that fall
into Tech um yeah instead of you know choosing a career unfortunately we hear it so often
um but yourself obviously you you fell into network engineering um what exactly is network engineering
and what what kind of roles would you expect to find in the sector that’s a good question I had absolutely no idea
what a network engineer was I’d never heard of it but in my opinion they are the unsung heroes of the modern world
it’s this elusive industry um so basically your mobile phone
networks your Broadband at home your internet connection to all your devices they are the network Engineers that work
on that Network so they design it they build it they implement it so you wouldn’t be watching your Netflix
without them you wouldn’t be on your Instagram you wouldn’t be whatsapping your friends teams in your colleagues
um so they do play a really crucial role in our modern day life
So within that industry so in in sort of layman’s terms there’s Network Engineers
that work on sort of wider area networks so that would be connecting your internet service providers like BT to
your home um and then there’s also Network Engineers that would work within an
organization so it might be like we’re on hsbc’s networks between different branches
um within actually the actual industry there’s loads of different areas and niches that you can sort of go in and
sort of specialize in so Network support Engineers as it says on the tin monitoring troubleshooting supporting
the networks um and then there’s project Engineers who are more focused on sort of building
implementing new networks Network Architects the people that design the
networks um and then those Network managers manner who manage teams of networks and
then their sort of pre-sales which is sort of taking requirements from customers for example HSBC and then
taking their requirements and then translating them into sort of solutions for the networks so they can then be built
um and within that there’s then loads of different niches so automation Cloud technical project management so there’s
this whole industry with so much opportunity just waiting to be discovered by females because it’s not a
lot no and obviously you mentioned that the the way that you came into Tech and that
you know you heard about it for a friend um were there any reasons you know why you chose a career in Tech um other than
the fact obviously that you know somebody pointed out this great opportunity for you did you you know did
you look at the position available and think actually that’s really good pay or you know it looks like there’s lots of
opportunities there for me in terms of flexible working or was there something that really stood out about tech for you
well I think from you know getting career advice of people I’d been told to go into the tech industry obviously it’s
one of the most booming Industries there’s going to be loads of work there for there and Far Future
um so I think the real appeal to me was the fact that the industry was in such a good place
um but then obviously there’s really good money in it I was told that as well
um and there’s a massive demand for females in general but I had the misconception
that you had to be a techie to go into the Turk industry so when I when you know people went to I should go into
Tech I thought oh no I can’t I’m I was never one to sit there and play with a computer
um so I just sort of wrote it offers an option um but then obviously now recruiting
within the space it’s opened up my eyes a lot more there’s so many different Avenues you can take if you aren’t a
techie so you can go into project management HR content writing marketing
um account management so there are loads of different other opportunities if you
aren’t technically minded like myself but actually network engineer it sounds Technical and the other jobs that you
mentioned within that area they all sound technical are they are they all non-techy roles or the ones that I
mentioned prior are all really are all technical but there’s loads of different Avenues into the industry as well so you
know you can you don’t have to spend three necessarily spend three years at Uni studying you can get a certification
under your belt um so if you are if you do have that sort of passion to to go into the more
sort of technical side there are loads of different Avenues you can then explore to get yourself there
yeah yeah absolutely and it’s something that um we talk about a lot actually on the podcast that there is such a range
of roles within technology and it does worry people like you said you have that fall I can’t go into the tech sector I
didn’t take a computer science degree I am not going to get on but as you mentioned there it’s there are so many
um routes in where you don’t have to have any technical knowledge at all which is the great thing about tech sector
um and also wonderful to hear that even though you graduated in 2020 um it sounded like the tech sector was
the beacon of light for you you graduated and thought maybe I’m not
gonna get on very well this year um but I’m hoping that the tech sector
um opened its arms to you especially as a woman did you find it was quite supportive um especially as a woman coming into the
industry 100 I think that was probably a massive contribute for the fact I did go into Tech I graduated during covid
pretty much everywhere else was you know majorly affected by covid so one of the
only industries that was still booming in most areas with tech
um I think as a woman yeah 100 there’s at the moment just like as a recruiter
and this is when I started as well finding a female network engineer is like gold dust they are in high demand
all of my clients are constantly asking me for female Network Engineers so the industry like understands and recognizes
there is a deficit and they are trying to do things to to change that
um so yeah so I think I think probably in some ways uh they have they have well there have been a
lot of indirect benefits for me I would say and it’s interesting obviously to hear you talk about
um your career and and how you came in and it doesn’t sound massively different to to the ladies that you’re recruiting
um I think that’s that’s what we get I’m confused about sometimes in technology is that the the you know the ladies that
you’re recruiting um won’t have too much of a different experience to yourself as well the tech
industry is incredibly welcoming um we know that on the inside I think as you mentioned it just there’s that
misconception sometimes about people that work in technology and the uh the
lack of opportunities sometimes available in Tech which to those of us that work in it seem absolutely crazy
um do you have any industry Role Models at all so for me
I did think I did I did think long and hard about this question but I think for me my main role models are anyone that
works within the space that does and it does does things or goes out of their way to encourage young aspiring female
Network Engineers so for me it’s I we host a podcast here at Hamilton Barnes
It’s called the router networking so we started last July um and then I’ve recently probably about
seven to eight months ago I started a spin-off series which is focuses just on women in Tech
um we obviously know as recruiters that there’s a massive deficit or female Network engineers in this space so we
thought this could be you know our our way of trying to encourage young females
or give career advice depending on sort of looking at it um so I’ve started it’s an interview style podcast so we run through their
past present and future run through career advice if they’ve got any useful sources stuff like that
so I’ve had all these amazing female Network Engineers on the podcast um and from through each of them I think
they’ve all brought something different and to me they are they have all inspired me not that I’m going to become a network engineer but
um yeah so like for example I had one of them Betty the boys she she’s uh she taught at wiresharks which
is like a it’s a network monitoring tool uh she used to do teach at this convention every year
um she felt so grateful for all the female mentors she’d had through
her career said she’d been really lucky she had a lot of help and support and she felt she like she needed to do
something to give back because she wasn’t seeing a lot of young females joining her class so she
donated 2 000 pounds of her own proceeds to pay for two for young females to come
to the Convention as her sort of way of giving back I’ve had you know all of
them everything one of them I’ve had on the podcast actively encourage you know women to reach out to them they all give
their social medias they’ve all got huge social media presences as well including blogs whether you know you can contact
them but they’re so more than willing for you know that it’s such a collaborative industry they want
people to reach out and they want to help the younger generation so for me I think they’re my Inspirations there are
a few more actually but um yeah yeah it’s nice as well that to have that
visibility as like yourself you said you know right at the start you didn’t know what network engineering was you didn’t
know anybody that worked in the area but to keep having that visibility of uh not
just people that work in Europe but ladies that work in that sector is so useful for for everybody and to really
drill down into what it is and what type of skills you would need and I’m sure
it’s something that the listeners of your podcast um find invaluable do you have people on there as well that are you know range
from um uh Juniors right through to senior level because that’s something that we
try to do um on our podcast because I think sometimes it’s it’s there’s lots of
senior ladies that are you know always do interviews and and podcasts which you absolutely love and and yeah welcome
um but you can’t always see yourself in that position can you you can’t always think well you know there’s that CEO or
CIO I can’t always see myself moving straight into that position and if I had
just graduated I would be you know you’re thinking about the next step
um it was great to hear from that lady yeah I think it’s it makes it so much
easier to you know to see a sort of career path if you have someone that you can relate to and actually a graduate
female network engineer is probably going to find it quite hard to relate to a CEO as you said so we initially
thought we had because we wanted to you know give people as much advice as possible so we initially started having
more senior Network Engineers CEOs um people that were much further on in
their career but we’ve then we’ve now sort of broken that down because we realized you know it’s better to have a
bit of diversity in there people at different stages um so we’ve now we now have gradual
people that have just graduated that have gone into their first sort of internship
um I’ve done a podcast with um with Rita younger and then I had her daughter who
was two years into networking career on another podcast afterwards yes we do mix
it up because I think as you said it’s so important to have someone that you can sort of relate to and because
there’s a lack of people a lack of women that we can um relate to in not just in
Tech but in network engineering and specifically what misconceptions or
myths um do you think women have about network engineering because there are a
lack of ladies out there telling their stories and sharing what it actually is like to work uh within the area
definitely and I think even now there’s been a massive shift in sort of female
codings there’s a lot of females that are now moving into coding and programming which is amazing
um but not as much within network engineering if not probably not half the
amount it seems to be that women always go towards coding um but I think that the main sort of
misconception is the fact that the networking I.T industry as a whole
has this masculine stereotype so when you think of it like most people think
of men in boiler suits fixing PCS and key keyboards and everything else yeah
it’s just not the scene shifting around the office yeah the it support guy in fact the industry is not like that
there’s so much opportunity you know it’s a lot more glamorous you can move into pre-sales and you know be head of
sales for a really big ISP like there’s there’s so many different areas to it that and I think it is this sort of
misconception that people have this shopping for young females move into it because I know for a fact when I was
younger that’s what I thought it was yeah you’re absolutely right um I think in all areas not just
something that sounds as technical as network engineering but even when I started when I was younger and I was a
young reporter and I never realized that when I fell into technology that I would
travel the world as much as I did when I was a young reporter and how many Tech
events and conferences that I was allowed to go to and they put you up in
nice hotels you know you don’t you you don’t have to stay in some small little
Shack you know you’ll go the cup tech companies are um incredibly welcoming
um and and have the money available to to ensure that you know your experience
is a great experience when you’re visiting that Tech conference and it was something that as a young person I
didn’t I didn’t realize that opportunity was going to be available to me that everybody in Tech goes to Vegas or you
know they know we all get to go to Vegas this is wonderful
um something we don’t care about no you don’t at all there’s like this whole
industry that’s just waiting to be discovered but um I think I would say that’s the main sort of thing that is
putting women off I think there are a lot of other stuff the fact that it is already so male dominated I think you
know people or females might sort of be deterred might have like imposter
syndrome which I’m sure most people know but just feeling out of place or feeling like you don’t belong somewhere or
you’re not good enough for a particular role um and I think that might be heightened
as well by there not being so many female figures in leadership and management roles within the industry
there is there there are but probably not as many as you would expect in other
Industries so I think there are other sort of fact is you might think that they’re they essentially can’t Thrive
because they’ll be met with a glass ceiling um but I have found from speaking to
all of these female Network Engineers that it’s literally the polar opposite all of them have had you know male
mentors or Champions or someone that really encourage them and help them through their career and giving them guidance so it is the polar opposite and
it’s just a shame that it could be these things that are holding people back yes
yeah and you mentioned there a little bit about imposter syndrome and which is something that we have spoke about
before on our podcast here do you find though with something like that as a
recruiter do you hear a lot of the ladies they don’t always stay or do you find that’s also a misconception as well
that once you know a lady has entered into Tech or has entered into a company actually she doesn’t stay there very
long because she does feel she doesn’t fit in or or um you know she just doesn’t fit very well with her team is
that something you hear or is that another misconception I think that is that is a misconception
um I think all of the most that I’ve spoken to that have opened up to me about this you know have suffered at
some stage with imposter syndrome and you know I’ve gone home and thought I can’t do this it’s not for me
um I’m out of place but I think all of them or majority of them stick it out
because they know the the opportunities that are there and they have you know self-belief and have just sort of
continued on yeah yeah and so we’ve spoken a little bit about um obviously you know ladies
coming in and feeling a little bit out of place occasionally
um but you know how do you think women especially those that are just starting out in Tech
um how can they stand out in a male dominated industry is there any advice you would give there
so I think there are different ways to do it and it depends on you know which way you are inclined as a person I think
being very present and vocal on social media uh gives you that sort of
individuality over just you know just interviewing or having a CV and building
out a personal brand because it is such a collaborative industry there’s so many different like platforms Discord
channels even Twitter and Linkedin are really big if you know reaching out and
sort of building a brand from uh within the space um for example we had we have Amanda
Cowell is a she’s a female network engineer we’ve worked as far as a candidate previously
um we she what she does is she’s now content creator for LinkedIn and she posts videos every Tuesday called
technical Tuesday which breaks down sort of technical technical areas um in more and she sort of breaks it
down makes it easier to understand which is great for us so she does that um every Tuesday and
she came we also had her as a guest on our podcast she actually posted a video yesterday and she said that coming on
her podcast was one of the contributors that helped her get her job at a major
vendor so they do love to see things like that as well but then not everyone
is that way inclined and it would be unfair to say that you know that’s your only option in sort of making a name and
getting himself out there I think if you are slightly more introverted which generally speaking
some Network Engineers have a bit of a name for being sort of introverted
um I think upskilling is a massive one getting certifications under your belt which is the big thing in the industry
there’s loads of different certifications you can get so I think just obso getting as much as you can focusing on your unique selling point so
you might have great soft skills create a career path around that I think
I think another thing as well that gives women a slight a bit more of an
edge over men women are more likely to sort of make themselves vulnerable and ask for help whereas men are sort of
blessing kind I think this can you know give you a massive Advantage because if you don’t understand something or you
need help like women are more likely to ask for it and then in turn you’re more likely to improve and get better at that
um so yeah so I think I think they’re my main ones I wanted to move on to talk a little bit back you know um career
advice for anybody getting internet work engineering um sector but actually you just mentioned something
um very interesting there which actually ties in with career advice you mentioned about creating a personality and a
personal brand and and not just thinking I’ll just have a CV and that can really
make you stand out it’s something that we’ve mentioned on a previous podcast about CV skills because I think you were
told years ago you know never include a picture of yourself on the CV and your employer but employer doesn’t want to
see your face and there are certain things you see as red flags don’t you but yeah you’re absolutely right if you
create a personality around your application instead of it just being a CV then surely that can only work in
your favor especially as a female in Tech of course and I think you know having
sort of if you you know if you have been on a podcast or you you do technical Tuesdays for example and having that on
your CV as well and sort of hobbies or interests you know really puts you ahead and at the end of the day most employers
will Google you so if you have content and stuff like that out there it will yeah it will put
you in good stead um but yeah it isn’t for everyone and there’s so many other ways that you cannot skill in the industry you know
without having to put yourself out there and everything else yeah do you have any
interview tips or pointers that have listeners is there anything that you see
a lot and you think oh how did that person say that well that’s a red flag
or you know do you warn any of your candidates please don’t say that when you get through to the next record
um my main interview tips so I would say just be really inquisitive and ask your questions so
around what training progression um research obviously it’s a sort of
given but you know researching the company’s employees look at their backgrounds look at you know how they’ve
progressed through the company um and I think another thing
women might be more likely to sort of lack self-belief as opposed to men are
slightly more confident generally speaking there’s a book called lean in by Cheryl Sandberg and she speaks about
there’s one of her points where she speaks about that if a man looks at a job description
and sees 10 requirements and he has four he would apply for that role whereas a
woman we’d be more likely to look at it and think oh no uh you know I haven’t I haven’t got those sex requirements and
I’m going to leave it so I think just having a bit of self-belief in yourself
going for that that role going for that promotion um but yeah I think in in this sort of
interview setting like don’t be deterred if you haven’t worked on something you know just say oh actually I haven’t done
that don’t like it don’t lie I haven’t done that however I’ve done this which
is sort of a think of a relative scenario um another good tip I think is having a
quick sheet of answers so what I do when I’m sort of prepping candidates for interviews
um we I always tell them to follow the star technique so it’s an acronym that stands for situation task action and
result so get you know set the scene for the interviewer give a sort of brief give it the main details that are needed
to sort of set the same task what was the task at hand action
what was the action you took to resolve the situation or um and then
result so what you achieved out of that so always get everyone to follow that format for like scenario based questions
um and sort of have a quick sheet that you’ve made beforehand so oh that’s great advice actually because I think
sometimes people get very nervous don’t they going on a job interview um even if it’s the initial HR screening
you’re kind of thinking what are they going to ask me um and you might not think I can prepare with a few notes and cheat sheet of you
know just just to help you through uh each round and yeah that’s great advice
you mentioned there uh one of your favorite books and do you have any other resources that you turn to as as a woman
working in Tech you mentioned obviously you have your own podcast which I hope you turn to for advice
um but any networking groups that that you’re a part of so I think initiatives
like this podcast like the podcast that we were on the roots networking uh there’s another one called The Art of
network engineering which is really good one of my previous podcast guest co-hosts it uh Lexi Cooper
um but I think for me the most important source is networking with Professionals
in the area so my advice is to my advice would be if you are considering a career
construct a template message just you know explaining that you’re an undergrad or you’re graduating in June looking to
get into the industry I’d really appreciate some advice and so you know would you would you be free to jump on a
call is there anything you can share here I’d make a template I would map out
Professionals in the area so do your research have a little look at you know maybe maybe it’s females that work for a
company that you want to work for and it doesn’t necessarily have to be females females males
um I probably wouldn’t aim for sending out 50 messages to CEOs to see other people that don’t have the time for you
but that would be my main bit of advice everyone loves the phrase it’s not what you know it’s it’s who you know but I
think it should be it’s not who you know it’s who you can get to know putting yourself out there asking people for
advice like everyone was in your shoes at one point in time so I think if you sent 100 messages out
you’d more than likely get 30 responses so um I think for me that’s probably one of
the biggest sources um there’s a few other things as well like you can join LinkedIn groups
Facebook groups um I know I’m I’m on I’m in a few LinkedIn groups that sort of Empower
women in Teleperformance uh Discord channels I recently went to a really good
Convention as well it was called um women in business and Tech and it’s hosted by Karen Brady
well she was a I think she was the CEO she was a founder of it’s called code
first girls have you heard of it yes I have yes yes I had it I thought it was
amazing it’s such an amazing initiative it’s offering up free training for anyone looking to get into coding it’s
not quite network engineering though so um but a great Network yeah but an
amazing it’s a great place to start um so yeah there are loads of different things
did you find a go into something in person as well really made quite a difference for you I think that’s
something that we lack at the moment I know things are you know they’ve started back up and but I find that a lot of
people that I talk to they get bogged down in working from home or not going into the city or
um they they might put on a webinar in the background and that’s that’s kind of like they think that’s okay but it’s
nowhere near as valuable as making those in-person connections and actually just you know turning up to a conference and
even chatting to ladies in the queue for the toilet I mean you know you never know it’s the little things yeah
no 100 I think it’s I’m a lot more of a sort of in-person person as opposed to
over the phone I remember when I started I had a bit of a phone phobia because I just found it so I found it so different just talking to people over the phone
um so no it was great to go and and get to speak to people and obviously everyone’s there for the same reason at
these events so it’s the perfect chance for you know anyone that’s looking for career advice or considering considering
like opportunities in the area um it’s the best place to do it like everyone’s there to network to answer
questions to speak to people so I think just the general Vibe of the place was
you know like you could go up to someone and speak to them and everyone’s really welcoming so no I think in person
conventions events are so important I think they’re a lot more beneficial as well yeah and they remember you they you
think yeah that lady exactly and actually gauge someone yes rather than
just oh I kind of might have deleted your email or it went into my junk or yeah
pop-up yeah exactly and then you know you can then connect with them and have
a lot more of a warmer relationship over LinkedIn or email as opposed to you know
trying to reach out to people over social media Etc yeah there’s definitely
a power in uh in person and networking we are running out of time so I’ve got
one question left to ask you um what more can the industry do to attract more women and allow them to
thrive is there something that you’ve seen in your experience as a recruiter that you think the industry should be
doing more of so I think for me the problem goes all
the way back to education government education we go to university like
careers fair day or careers Fair days and we do like workshops to with
with students who are network engineers and computer science students
um quite often I’m the only one in the room I’m the only female in the room so it’s clear that the problem starts way
before University so in my opinion I think you know there needs to be more done in secondary schools whether this
is through you know females coming in and talking about the career opportunities or just more incorporation
into into the sort of education system so you can see what options are out there in
the second stream that’s great it’s great um advice to end on because we are already out of time and we could
definitely talk on this all afternoon um but unfortunately we are out of home
Maddie so thank you so much for coming in and chatting with us today it’s been a pleasure thank you so much Kaylee for
having me I really enjoyed it thank you and we’d love to have you back again in the future um so we’re definitely get an invite
over to you but um everybody listening as always and thank you for joining us
and we hope to see you again next time
