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More than just flexibility: Attracting and retaining female tech talent

Shot of a group of professionals waiting for a job interview, talent acquisition concept

ARTICLE SUMMARY

One good thing to come out of the pandemic was the increased acceptance to flexible and remote working. For women, who are more likely to be care-givers and take on household chores alongside work, flexible working allowed for a better balance of home and working life.

One good thing to come out of the pandemic was the increased acceptance to flexible and remote working. For women, who are more likely to be care-givers and take on household chores alongside work, flexible working allowed for a better balance of home and working life.

However, flexibility alone cannot tackle all the issues women in the workplace face – gender pay gap, discrimination, a lack of representation, to name a few.

So what can companies do to further their female workforces’ careers, attract a more diverse workforce and retain their current talent?

To give us an idea of what more needs to be done to attract and retain female tech talent, we catch up with Megan Barbier, Vice President, People & Culture at Jumio.

Megan discusses the shifting attitudes when thinking about attracting and retaining talent, as the workplace continues to evolve following the pandemic. What’s more, Megan believes that people shouldn’t be afraid to scrutinise company cultures and ‘hidden expectations’, ensuring businesses remain flexible in order to thrive.

Megan is a champion of people and is passionate about supporting and encouraging women to consider a career in Technology. She has 20 years of experience leading HR functions for large and emerging technology organisations. Prior to Jumio, she led international people operations for Wrike, a global software company. In her role at Jumio, Megan is responsible for driving global people and culture strategy. 

hello everyone and thank you for tuning in I am Kaylee Bateman the content director at chican code and today we’re
discussing how to attract and retain female Tech talent that it’s more than just offering flexibility one good thing
to come out the pandemic was that increased acceptance of flexible and remote working for women who are more
likely to be caregivers and take on household chores flexible working has enabled a better work-life balance for
many however flexibility alone cannot tackle all of these shoes that women in the workplace face so what more can
companies do to attract and retain a more diverse Workforce luckily I have
the wonderful Megan barbier vice president people and culture at jumio with me today to discuss the shifting
attitudes towards flexible working and much more welcome again thank you Kaylee
it’s a pleasure to be here with you today thank you so much for joining us can we get started with a quick
background uh just a little bit about yourself place sure I have over 25 years
of experience now in the field of HR it hasn’t aged me a day I promise uh I’ve
I’ve been in this space for for my entire career largely because this is what I love to do I’ve LED large Global
people and culture or human resource teams for a number of organizations prior to jumia I was with uh with Bosch
and then Reich as well which was a collaborative work management software firm amazing did you always know that
you wanted to come in to talk I I did I I think it was something that I I found
that I really resonated with the mindset and the drive I think that there are so
many problems in in in in our world and when I look at the the very broad industry of tech we are tackling some of
the biggest problems we are poised to make an impact in in having a real solution to to some of these challenges
and there’s such a broad array of of what what the tech industry can can offer so uh it’s it’s been a really nice
fit in that there is such a such a spectrum of what’s available and I also
really like the challenge I you know again I’ve mentioned I’ve been doing this for a while and the industry that I
entered is vastly different today um even just in in the makeup and the
demographics and um you know one thing I’m guilty of is I love changing people’s minds I love
um tackling a preconception and and having someone and have an encounter with me or my team and and come out
better for it so I find that there are endless opportunities to do that particularly in text so it’s uh it’s
resonated with me in what I seek what I find fulfilling yeah it’s nice to hear when somebody says you know what I I saw
the tech industry and I I thought it was a very attractive place and that’s what I wanted to do because we we hear so
many routes into the industry on this podcast um and it’s lovely it’s very refreshing to hear when somebody says yep I saw
that industry I thought it was going to be fantastic and uh that’s where I went and it’s been everything I thought it
was going to be um today we’re discussing flexible working and uh but we’re going to um
discuss a little bit as well about the pandemic um and how that is uh obviously shifted
attitudes towards flexible working now the pandemic has seen many companies relax their remote working policies
obviously um do you think the pandemic has made organizations soften their attitudes
towards remote working what what have you seen yourself yeah you know this this is something
where I I think we still have a really big Spectrum I think that there is still a really uh really interesting spread
around leaders and organizations that are really embracing this new way of working or maybe not some new way of
working um really leveraging it leaning into that flexibility and all the great ways that they can rethink work and
connectivity and and performance and I still think that there are a number of other organizations and leaders that are
resigning themselves to well this must be the way it is now so I I certainly think that there has been a heavier
shift along that bell curve where uh the pandemic was a really great Catalyst for that
um and I still think that ultimately when we set a really important word attitude so much of what people
experience when they come to a Workforce whether it be virtually or in person they’re gonna feel what that ethos is
from their leader they’re going to feel what that is from from the teams they interact with forget the policy it won’t
really matter it’s going to be how how are people behaving and how are people demonstrating that they support it and
embrace it that really is the more critical factor and I do believe that since the pandemic companies and leaders
that hears you for would not have have ever wanted to have a situation where their team was working remotely all the
time um I think have kind of come across the line now in in greater numbers because they see that maybe we’re fighting a
tide that isn’t going to be easily pushed back and we should be opportunistic how do we capitalize on
this change and make it work for us and for our our employees and our people yeah it was um you’re absolutely right
there’s that feeling that you get from somebody isn’t there when when you’re interviewing or you know when we went
into lockdown um I remember thinking how lovely it was that all of the team that I I was
working on at the time everybody went home and it was a different feeling of instead of when you’re the only one
that’s working from home because you need to take in a delivery or something you know can I have the afternoon working from home and you always have
that feeling that your manager or your team are thinking they’re not working you know but when we all went home for
the pandemic it was far more relaxed and you could just get on and feel that you were trusted
um and I think that that trust only really grew throughout lockdown
um and everything is is far more relaxed now what was your experience
um uh at Junior what what did you guys do were you working remotely before and just kind of just felt natural to you or
what happened yeah interestingly I joined jumia in the the early days of the pandemic thinking we’d be through it
and so the company that when I joined uh we were very much in in office first
across all of our different regions and it was a real a real stretch I think for
some some leaders to make that adjustment um you know and it the the good thing is is that we are a tech company we have
amazing advanced technology and AI automation Biometrics um our teams are
very used to working and in fact what we do we we we’re changing the digital landscape by building trust in
onboarding and fighting fraud all through our Solutions so if I think about us being citizens in that digital
landscape we were probably poised better than many other companies that maybe
didn’t have that technology that technological advantage to really understand and be comfortable in those
environments it was still I think a really big challenge the culture that we’ve built over the last two and a half
years really has demonstrated that you can pivot you can excel accelerate not
just you know languish and survive you can accelerate through some of those changes if you understand you know what
does it mean to be a good leader now am I open to maybe changing my my definition of performance am I open to
maybe changing um how I’m used to my modus operandi of interacting with the team we’ve you know
explicitly asked our leaders to do all that and they’ve risen to that challenge and you’ll see companies that have been
successful and really um you know advancing in spite of these pandemic or the hurdles that came up in
the pandemic um are doing very very well now you know we’re still in an environment of a lot of now we have other uh hurdles and other adversity uh
things cropping up with the economic situation and all kinds of other challenges
um in in the talent Market but there is you know again a resilience I think that the pandemic helped build
yeah yeah plus you guys your technology is super cool it’s like you just go home you know you can work remotely you can
fight crime remotely it’s it’s all cool um with the the skills Gap in the
industry obviously do you think that increasing female representation could could help close that
absolutely I I the potential is there um I don’t think just adding females
into the mix will automatically do it I think companies really have to cultivate a space where that can happen
um you know if you’re throwing seeds out over a barren field and you’re not watering it it’s not going to yield the crappy one however I I do think that
there is a real key um and whether it’s female or really
anytime you’re adding that different perspective into your your team Dynamic you have an opportunity both as a leader
and as a teammate how do I reintroduce this how do I rethink even our workflows
how do I maybe re-envision what um what our skill set looks like
um I I think absolutely I don’t think we close that skills that skill Gap without introducing females and really trying to
index toward building diverse teams and and I think that um the females and non-males need to be a part of that
um and I think being intentional about it helps I I don’t think especially in Tech it doesn’t happen by accident uh
you you already are are somewhat behind the curve just based on the law of numbers there are fewer women than men
in Tech and while we see progress on that front uh we we haven’t really shifted that balance to level it out
where we can have it happen accidentally we need to be intentional we need to have a plan we need to have a commitment and then we need to to live that
commitment to try to bring um that diversity into our teams yes as you said it is intentional and and you
need a plan um what more can companies do to to attract new female Talent do you think
there are certain things they could they should be doing um as part of that plan I love that you’re asking this question
Kaylee because I do think that in this current state a lot of companies are thinking oh you know there’s a downturn
and there’s news of layoffs I can go out to the market and find talent that is not so that is not true there are really
really good companies hiring a lot of people good talent will go quickly and so I do think that it will serve
organizations that are looking to to add to their talent pool um to find ways to attract women and you
know it’s funny because I also think that there are um there are some things that really helped us in the pandemic
this concept of flexibility while I see more um you know more more candidates
and employees really calling for that as table Stakes I do find that many of um
many women really index harder on that they they need that flexibility I think as you said at the beginning
um they’re using that time in ways to help achieve that life work Harmony
um you know and really trying to make the most of their time so I think that that’s something where um we talked about the the feeling that
you get it’s not enough to have a policy it’s do I feel that I can be successful
here exercising that flexibility I mean I think organizations that are are effective in communicating that are
going to be able to attract females I think the other piece too especially in Tech that idea of not just what are you
hiring me for what’s my future look like if I’m going to give my time away from
my family away from my personal you know needs and growth development I’m devoting this time to a company or a
technology that I really believe in what does that look like for me what is my investment of time going to get me and
so that Future Vision I think is is more important now than ever what does it look like for me six months in three
years in 18 months in where am I going and I think companies that do that effectively show that there is a growth
plan here you can you can add to your resume you can grow as a professional you can develop your skills here
um is is I think more important than here’s the really great package we’re giving you now that can’t be enough I think a lot of
women especially now we’re Savvy people are asking the right questions on what does this mean for me
I’m giving you these two years three years eight years what does it mean for me what does this look like for me as a professional on the other side of that I
yes and and the feeling um as well when you get in a company and
you you’re right that the employees now they want to know before they get in
what that culture is like does it come from the top down well I see my boss you
know as a parent that is deliberately blocking out time in their calendar because they need to go and do something
they need to do the school run you know all of those things make other employees feel like that’s okay and unless you see
that or hear about it um either in your interview process or through you know profiles or whatever it may be from
employees working at the company you’re absolutely right it’s far more than that that package and what is actually
written um in your contract and whether or not you will be staying for two years or
Beyond another one too which I think is really interesting for for tech companies and I
think if I could encourage uh people to to adopt this but but don’t don’t be
afraid be open be honest do not hide your metrics know them own them
um I I find that you know even in the pandemic and and I think even now as we enter in that post-pandemic economic
downturn I I do see that that candidates and not just women but but non-women
candidates are asking you know let me see your breakdown let me understand what is your gender demographic or or your ethnic demographic people want to
know what that is and I think oftentimes there’s a hesitancy right um it’s not about promoting that you’re
pretending to be perfect you want to be really public about your plan to get better and whether that’s candidates
whether it’s proactively uh you know running that on social as a campaign I think it serves a company and and as a
candidate if I have some empathy around so candidate if I’m seeing a company come out and say hey I have 25 of my
Workforce female I have 10 of my work for female I don’t like it here’s what we’re doing to change it that is far
better than trying to fluff metrics or or to be cagey about them so I do think that there is a really good trust build
that can happen when companies choose to own being not perfect and really to focus on ways that they’re committed to
improving and and that again I think speaks volumes to candidates in in really any underrepresented group
yes you’re so right um we work with a lot of Partners here um on content and
when I get to the point where I call them up and I say you know we’d love to get started on creating your content
with you um you know who would you like to highlight what would you like to talk about and sometimes I get our partners
say well you know actually we’re we’re partnering you with you because we’re yet to have a lot of diversity on our
team and I think you know what I couldn’t care less you’re we’re here to help you at any stage of your journey
and you’re absolutely right the more honest that they are about that um and we can still talk about their
company and and um you know why it’s fun to work there and it doesn’t matter if you don’t have
a diverse team just yet to to highlight just being honest that you’re on a
journey to try and improve things and I think people really can tell you know for companies really trying or not
um a lot of the content as well uh from companies like that we like to find focus on more about their mission and
the things that they do and and as you said employees are looking for far more
than that package and they’re looking for a career where they can really make a difference and you know someone like
jumia you you know make the internet safer there’s there’s a mission there’s you know do you get people asking about
those types of things you know it’s not just what’s the salary it’s kind of what difference am I going to be making yeah
yeah I 100 I think you know at the core people want to be connected to meaningful work uh that’s that’s females
that that’s everybody and I think that that’s one of the really great differentiators in in Tech is resolving
some of the world’s biggest problems we’re solving problems we don’t even know we have yet there is so much that
you can that you can do and I think also you know there’s great enablement that happens with technology a lot of ways
it’s it’s flattened that playing field and you know again now take another layer with the pandemic now we’re going
to disperse that Workforce into another Level Playing Field where your commute times guess what they’re pretty much all
the same if you’re working from home no one is sacked with a commute because they live in a suburb or an excerpt because they don’t have a salary or
family situation that allows them to live next to their their office so I think that there’s these great
equalizers that are that are coming and I’ve I’ve seen that tremendously people are almost let’s get to the let’s get to
the salary later that’s the final step let me lock all these things down and then if it’s satisfied then we’ll engage
in that offer stage I’m seeing much more of that from the candidates side I think we’ve been trending that way for a while
it certainly has uh has accelerated and I think even even in 2023 heading
heading into um what’s kind of an interesting and maybe uncertain labor market and and I
think economic situation we’re still going to see that I I think good talent uh if you know your good talent you know
your worth you’re asking those questions because again um the other piece too is I can’t I
can’t tell you a single person that works in the tech industry that works eight I really can’t it doesn’t exist
and people are giving their their time they’re committing fully to the choice they make and as an employer you have an
opportunity to to really make sure that it’s it’s an equal trade right you’re getting back what you’re putting in if
not more so um yeah I think that that again is from candidates perspective in front of mind
what what am I doing how am I contributing as a person how am I growing changing for the better
yeah which I think before the pandemic was very much um you know when you interviewed it
would be kind of what is that company offering me whereas I think it just there was just that shift suddenly on
and you were right is something that works both ways now um am I getting from that company what I
need personally and professionally um to move forward and in terms of um the top perks and benefits what what do
you think women in Tech are looking for there have they changed at all yeah you know I I have a saying it
everyone can always pay one dollar more than you one Euro more than you you will never win the battle for talent whether
it’s acquiring new Talent OR retaining your current child you’re never going to win it on on comp um you might need that to lock in but
but you’re gonna win it on how committed are our people to the vision how committed are they to your organization
and then how much does does their own personal set of values align with with
your culture as an organization um those are the things that differentiate right I can’t replicate those because I wake up one day can I
can I write an offer and add another dollar on there sure I can and I can pay you more but I can’t make that change so
I think companies that think about that um are are actually really meeting the market where it’s at our candidates and
and I think even our current employees across all organizations want to see that um and I think unique benefits that is
something really interesting I find that even as we’ve you know kind of gone through the pandemic we’re emerging now
the differentiation on gender is is less I think those areas that are meaningful
to to to women historically meaningful are just as as meaningful to other candidates
um parental leave is a great example that is a benefit regardless even if you
never use it or not planning on using it it has value when I see that a company
offers a a generous package for parents even if they aren’t one themselves and
won’t use it it communicates what the company’s values are and and I think that that’s something that’s somewhat
surprising to to some leaders in some organizations what I I only have 10 female why would I have a great
maternity program ah well what is it communicating about so um you know that that’s one example I think hands down
flexibility is going to be the name of the game for the foreseeable future that can mean a lot of things and and that
can mean flexible work schedule it can mean a flexible benefits where people are being able to to Smorgasbord it
right pick and choose what works for you and I think that’s also you know efficacy right a company only has a
finite amount of of cash and budget they can put to things you’re going to have to make sure it matters to your
employees you know once you’re compliant with everything what’s going to be meaningful to them and so I think that
that’s far and away uh one of the best things companies can do when they think about how do I make a compelling uh
opportunity or how do I communicate a compelling opportunity um flexibility is is just going to be
huge um and then I think yeah I mean I think there’s also again as I said connection to meaningful work
um particularly in Tech we have this really great opportunity every day to to
have people you know work on meaningful assignments work on exciting technology innovate and maybe they’re not doing
that every day but but are you communicating that there’s an opportunity are you showing them there’s a path are you creating those
opportunities um I think that resonates really really well particularly with women who um you
know may be wanting to explore and and stretch and connect with mentors and colleagues in a group they might not
normally work with that’s a huge development stretch that you can provide um you know really any underrepresented
groups in in your organization it doesn’t cost you anything it’s it’s about being intentional and and being
proactive about creating those opportunities but um but any company can can do that it doesn’t matter your size
or what your budget is yeah yeah I was going to talk to you um uh a little bit
obviously about the great resignation um which which took hold of the market recently
um and and how companies can look to retain this stuff but there was some lovely things that you said there about
what a company communicates that’s that’s how they can retain their stuff because as you said it’s you know even
the parental leave even if you don’t use it if you see that a company is that open and that flexible when you need
time suddenly you know something happens and you have to um go and care for a loved one or
whatever it may be it might have nothing to do with parental leave and you just think you know what it’s okay to ask and
my company will be fine with it and I will probably get the answer Family First go and do what you need to do and
then we can you know if it’s an ongoing thing we can sort out whatever it is you need um but if you don’t see those things in
your package and it’s very black and white then they are communicating you know there is a problem make sure that
you’re chained to your desk even if it’s remotely you know up until six o’clock of an evening and um don’t dare leave if
even if you need to for an emergency um so you’re absolutely right there’s so
much more uh to communicate um rather than just you know a couple of bullet points
yeah yeah and it’s interesting too because I I’m I’m very I mean it’s probably not a surprise given the field
that I’m in um I’m a big Advocate on putting people at first put them at the core put them
at the center think about them as people they are not your Workforce they are a person they are not your you know devops
engineer they are Sally or or Juan right they’re they’re people
um I think having that mentality is a really really great Foundation to build
on and then I think it also you know it just becomes a little bit more about
um if I invest in my people they will invest in me if I prioritize my people
my people will prioritize the organization it’s you know not to sound
like I’m oversimplifying it there are really really strong grains of truth if somebody needs time to tend to their own
Wellness if I provide that to them they will they they will come back refreshed and and better able to deliver the their
best work and so I think the question that all you know not even just leaders but I think even us as teammates and
colleagues working with our peers and and people outside of our team you know how do we make sure that that we’re
taking care of each other and communicating that you know that we’re working together on something I think
that’s a really amazing poll try to unseat somebody that’s in an organization like that for another
opportunity um you’re gonna it’s gonna be pretty close to Impossible if you can create
that connection as an employer that great resignation is is noise in the
wind it’s really not going to be impacting your business motion that said you know you you kind of need to to
figure out what that looks like for your organization um but again that that’s that’s a mindset it’s it’s not really a budget
item it’s it’s how I think about something which is anyone can choose to adopt that I could wake up tomorrow and
change what I’m doing by adopting that mindset versus I need to go through a budget cycle to get funds to do
something radical changing your mindset could be radical enough yes and and that leads nicely um in into company culture
and that that mindset because comedy culture obviously if if that if
the mindset of people is incorrect or as you say if they if they need time off if they need some time just to to do
something for their own well-being it all bleeds into your day-to-day company culture and your experience with your
team your team members what they say to you um and have you seen any examples of of
red flags when it comes to company culture yes oh this is the the horror
story section right where we can talk about a lot of the crazy things I’ve seen some stuff I mean it’s you know
it’s interesting and I will say that I’ve seen and I’ve been part of really really wonderful cultures as well so
it’s really nice to kind of have the the comparison of the two extremes um and I think you know the theme that
that runs through it for me is you know what what a culture is it’s it’s ultimately the culmination of your
everyday activities I’m sure that’s a quote from someone other than me I can’t imagine I would have made that up I feel
like I’ve heard it before it truly is though you know what it’s not about what I put on the wall it’s not about what I
you know what I put out on social it’s about what I do and what my team does and what my leaders do each and every
day that is your culture and sometimes you know it’s hard to pick that up if
you’re interviewing or if you’re looking at it from an outside perspective um and and yeah I mean I think that when you have these really uh nightmare
stories of red flags and a culture it’s where those actions do not align with what is being said and and what is being
messaged you know am I living my values through my behaviors what behaviors am I
engaging in what behaviors are my team members am I leaders engaging in do they line up with my own values if
there is a disconnect that will be a nightmare culture even if someone else might think it’s a great culture and they’re aligned so you know I think that
that’s something where know thyself right there are things that are really important to each of us as individuals
some of them it’s okay to be uncompromising on and it’s okay to say
I’m not I’m that culture is not for me it might be great for someone else right it doesn’t mean that it’s a bad company
necessarily it just might mean that you’re going to spend a lot of energy and you’re going to feel exhausted and
ineffective if you are trying to line to a culture that doesn’t line with you um and you know and finding it out right
that that is again sometimes there’s not a shortcut I used to try to think maybe I’ll write a book about shortcutting how
to find a company culture I think a lot of ways you can’t you do need to see you need to observe you need to see see what
that behavior is the other thing too which I and maybe this is really might particularly resonate with with with
women out there sometimes you know it is your gut and that is not don’t dismiss
it right those feelings are real and it’s probably worth if you are having that question of did I just make a
mistake or am I in the right place sit with that figure it out look yourself in the mirror spend some time with that
because maybe that’s all it is and that is actually enough to say maybe I need to be putting my energy elsewhere
changing how I’m engaging with work um because you you will you will run yourself ragged if you’re if you’re not
aligned and you’re in a in a culture that doesn’t align with you yes I love that just listen to your girl oh gosh
how many times in an interview were you sort of and as you say it comes back to that
um you know employees thinking more possible candidates thinking more about is this really for me and you’re right
you can pick up on that culture um in an interview a little bit you can try and try and uh pick up on that from
from the hiring manager or or whoever um you’re talking to but I think you’re you’re right as well it doesn’t mean a
company is um bad or that there’s something wrong with them it’s just the the culture that
suits you and and how you like to work um as she can code because we’re a startup we move a million miles a minute
and it is a lot of fun and it’s very fast and very hard work but I prefer
that culture of everybody’s moving super fast and having a good time rather than
when I’ve worked in a big company and I feel things can slow and there’s nothing wrong with the big company it’s just
picking the culture um that that works for you obviously do you think employees can change their
culture from with being if they’re not happy or is it just not worth it
I do I believe that they can change it I will say it’s going to be tough if
they’re on their own so absolutely change can can impact actually some of the best changes and shifts in in
cultures and and practices that I’ve been a part of have actually not happened from the CEO or the leader of
HR they’ve happened from the team members so 100 I think that there is um
there is always a path to change I think it’s harder if you are on your own um I think it’s harder if you come from
a place of being angry um because again the anger anger repulses people they tend to not want to gravitate and
empathize with with anger but if you’re constructive if you have a team if there’s if there’s or if you have
colleagues or people that you can lock arms with and move forward um you’re you’re geared much better to
make those kinds of changes and and to have an impact and I think that goes back to right the importance of making
sure that you’re fostering those connections that you’re building those friendships whether it’s at your company
or or outside of your company I I can’t think of a single uh you know star story
or example of someone who is wildly successful who who did it on their own I think particularly in Tech there’s a
real opportunity for women to actively find a champion if it’s not happening organically and it doesn’t always that
that’s okay that’s that doesn’t speak to you or any any flaw um it just sometimes they don’t happen again we might have to work on it but
but get somebody that’s in your corner that can serve as a sounding board and and even just someone that that you can
can commiserate with at some point um but but really having that there because then if you are in a place where
you see an opportunity for change going forward with with a group you you have some momentum even if it’s just you and
one other person so um I’ve I find that that tends to be successful I think mentality too
especially you know this is a great example so at gmail we had um some some
pretty interesting demographics with with regards to our gender splits we did not like them um it was less than 20 women um when
when I joined and we were going into a stage of hyper growth and we knew that wow it’s going to be really hard to get
people to to take time and spend the time to to hire candidates um and we we came at it from
understanding you know who are the champions of this cause how do we get them to help us amplify our message how do we help them how do we have them help
us illustrate its importance so it’s not just one person with one voice it’s it’s multiple people with multiple voices but
coming in and knowing guess what we can’t I can’t flip this I can’t get 50 50 splits
I don’t need to boil the ocean to make a change so sometimes it’s deciding is forward progress progress yes is little
progress we’re celebrating yes celebrate the small wins make the progress so I think sometimes it’s also setting
yourself up because it’s so easy to get discouraged especially if you’re talking about something larger scale Beyond
yourself changing your team changing your organization um Mark progressed the success and get
people to help you do it I think there’s absolutely pathways through that it would be a rare situation where you
couldn’t make the change if you had those two things in in line yes one one step at a time
um we are almost out of time I just wanted to ask you um one last thing um what’s next for Jimmy are you you just
mentioned there a stage of hyper growth and and what’s next yeah so I will say
we are moving into growth uh which is interesting right hyper growth is uh like like you I like the fast pace I
like a lot of things happening um the wonderful thing is we were talking about this just the other day we’re entering in into this really
unique opportunity to focus on all those really important things that always get overshadowed by the Urgent so 2023 and
and I think the next you know four to six quarters are going to be very hyper focused on making sure that we’re um
that we’re we’re strong in our Roi we’re strong in efficacy we’re strong in quality um it’s less about speed and volume both
on the the hiring side I think even on the initiative side it’s more about fine-tuning and honing what we’ve been working towards and then the other
really big push is you know we’re talking about engagement and we’re talking about how do we paint the The
Long View of what opportunity looks like for junior regardless of your level regardless of your your function or your
location um and I think that’s going to be a really big needle mover for us um because again you know people have kind
of come out of this really frenetic Pace um over the last you know even even two years for us it’s been a pretty intense
move now we get to take stock of you know are we making sure we’re developing are we approaching our um our people
intentionally with what do they need and maybe that’s really different even from what it was at this time last year so
um keeping that engagement keeping the people at the core is something we’re going to continue to do gosh it sounds
like you’ve got a lot on your plate and we would love to have you back another time for an update
um on how you guys are doing but Megan thank you so much we are already out of time thank you conversation has flown by
so thank you so much for for chatting with us today grateful for the opportunity and to
everybody listening thank you for joining us and we hope to see you again next time

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