hello everyone thank you for tuning in again I am Katie batesman the content director actually can code and in
today’s episode we’re discussing why London isn’t the only place for good Tech Talent while London Remains the top
destination for Tech talent in the UK there are so many exciting opportunities to be found in other areas of the
country with the tech industry crying out for more Talent we’re delving into why organizations should be casting
their Nets outside of the capital so I’ve got the wonderful clear leverage vice president and general manager Amir
at arctic wolf with me today to discuss this topic further welcome Claire thank you for joining us my pleasure thanks
for having me thank you and this is the topic we haven’t had on here before we talk about tech Talent all the time and
but we haven’t actually spoke about location um and the importance of uh going a
little bit further than London and why it’s important for businesses to look further afield so we’re gonna uh dive
into that in a second book to start can we hear a little bit about your background how you got into tech and and
you know a little bit about your path so far absolutely um so I would love to say that getting
into Tech was planned and that I went to University and I studied all things Tech but I absolutely didn’t so I went to
University and I studied uh languages with um European studies and I actually
thought or hoped that I would go and get to work somewhere in Europe somewhere within the European commission or the
European Parliament whatever that would be but actually I did my degree because I loved languages not because I had any
career aspirations at that time which I think’s quite normal for a lot of people these days you know particularly at the
age of 18 who really knows what they want to do unless you’re in a profession like you know you want to be a doctor or
you want to go into law or a particular profession I think there’s a lot of people at that age just don’t really
know what they want to do and I was a key example of that so I finished University and we decided
that with today in Portsmouth which is where I studied for the summer and just have a final hurray
um but I needed of course I didn’t have funds at that time so I needed a job and I actually got into to transport and
Logistics because they needed somebody that was trilingual um so that’s where I started and it was
just a summer job but I actually ended up staying there around seven years and that’s where my career really started so
I started in import export and then that progressed onto a couple of roles that got me into sales and it was at that
point that I realized that I really excuse me enjoyed working with people I like the thrill of the sale I liked
being out and about and meeting different people and I thought actually this is what I want to do but because
I’d started in that role on something like 8 000 pounds a year at that time instead they could never pay me the same
as they paid my peers which I think is quite you know I’ve heard a lot of people that have stayed in their
original jobs or the first jobs that have got to that point and the company actually said to me to to pay you the
right amount you’re gonna have to leave and come back that’s the only way we can
put you on this salary that you deserve so all that is the salary for this job so I thought well I’m obviously going to
leave but I didn’t quite know to do what and I knew somebody that worked for a startup based in High Wycombe and I’ve
got an interview and I got the job and it was a total shock to the system because I knew nothing about I.T I knew
nothing about the tech industry it was completely green and I was the only salesperson so I learned everything I
learned about working with the reseller Channel I learned about direct sales I did an inside sales job I was basically
given a phone book until to go and find some customers which is what I did um so that’s how I landed in Tech and
it’s such a small industry that that first job led to the second job that led
to my next job and actually the people that you meet along the way there’s so many great people in Tech that that
helps you to move from job to job to advance your career and I’m lucky enough still to work with some people that I
worked with in that first job in Tech but I’ve made so many great relationships in this industry that
that’s what helps you to to move on and find new opportunities in many respects
but I love the fact that you said you joined a tech job and you had um no Tech background and and it’s great
it’s always great to hear that I think people find the industry very um intimidating from the outside and
they think I have to have Tech qualifications in a tech background actually you just described your first
job they sounded very open to the fact that they just wanted somebody um who obviously had experience in work
and you must have had a lot of transferable skills coming over to the tech industry and that they you know
probably saw as an advantage and and just let you train up in the other areas that they they needed you to completely
and we very often say particularly in roles like sales roles you know if you find a good salesperson
that could they could sell anything from Sand to the Arabs through to you know coffee in Colombia they can you know if
a good salesperson has the people skills in the transferable skills to move from industry to Industry for me it’s more
about understanding what’s out there what the opportunity is and going after it I think the tech industry like you
say people think that you have to be really Technical and you have to have studied I.T or Computer Sciences or some
sort of some sort of tech degree but you don’t you know you come into an organization like arctic wolf obviously
there are parts of the job and and opportunities that offer for real
technical people with technical skills and Security in infrastructure and
networking that you need to have that background for but in many jobs you can come in and we can teach you you know if
you’ve got the drive and the enthusiasm and the desire to be successful and the
desire to achieve something and you understand what the opportunity is we can teach you in many different roles
and we can either start or Advance your career and that’s really what I would like people to understand that
if you understand that there are opportunities with an I.T go after them because it’s a great sector to work in
but I think you’re absolutely right there is a common misconception that you have to have a technical background to
come into I.T there are a lot of roles in it that you don’t need that technical background for
yes definitely and and today uh our conversation um is is talking about you know the
different types of locations um that that you can you can go for tech jobs I mean there it ties in um with what you
just said on you know the the shortage of tech talent and being more
encouraging for for companies to you know invite more people in with the the
right mindset the right um skills and not necessarily the correct Tech skills
um but also you know now we can say that companies are casting in it slightly
further revealed um to look for talent outside of of the city and I think a lot of that obviously
changed with the pandemic and that that was changing slowly but it changed quite dramatically with with the pandemic um
is that something you’d agree with that the pandemic had an effect on people searching for tech jobs outside of the
capital I think it’s had an impact on people searching for all sorts of jobs outside
the capital um you know when I left school everybody thought that to have a career
you’d have to move down south and and that’s exactly what I did you know I went down to Portsmouth I studied there
but then I stayed in the Southborough for 20 years until I got to a position where I realized that actually you can
have or I knew enough about it to know that you could have a role and at the time that I moved back and we’ll talk
about this a bit later yeah I had a job that meant that as long as I was close to a train station or uh or an airport
it was fined because I traveled so much but I think the impact of the pandemic
has been huge so if we look back to in a previous row I had an inside sales team
and we had an office in London and the expectation always was you would come
into London and it was an office-based job because you know you feed from each other and you need that office
environment to do a job like that because it’s really tough so there was never any question about
people coming into the office when I started with arctic wolf to look for the same sort of role at that time I
thought I was going to put my office in London this was before we made the decision to put the office in Newcastle
and we started the hiring process and the answers that I got blew me away so I
found you know not just not just new graduates or or people out
of University not not just necessarily with tech background or people on in other parts of the career and I’d say to
them you know it’s an office-based job we’re planning to put the office in London the answer I got back was this is
the salary I want which was the equivalent of London sorry so this is the salary I want this is my expectation
but I’m not coming into the office and I would say well why not well I’m not traveling into London every day I’m
not going to get the train and I’m not going to commute and I’m not going to pay London prices to have a job so if
you want me to do this job then it will be remote and I was absolutely blown
away I couldn’t believe the answers that I’ve got because you always expect London to be the place that you can hire
easily for an office type environment because you’ll have the talent there but
I could not people withdrew from the the applications because it was an office in
London job and I think there’s an awful lot of people that do not want to work
in the city anymore that don’t want the commute they don’t want to lose the time and who’ve realized after the pandemic
that actually work-life home life balance is key and quality of life is
key so when when we decided to launch the Emir head office in Newcastle I can’t
tell you how many people got in touch with me saying I’ve read your story I
want to do the same as you did I want to move back to the north do you know of any opportunities or can
you tell me more about what you did and how you did it because the expectation is that to have that career you’d need
to be in the South but when people and started understanding that you know it’s a multi-billion dollar company we’ve
just opened our headquarters in Newcastle it was a you’ve done what why why would
you do that but but why not the question is why not and I think the amount of people that now want to have their life
or be close to family and not have that distance away um from their roots or or whatever
reason it may be I think the pandemic has changed that massively and I’ve got I’ve got enough emails to prove that as
well it’s been fascinating absolutely fascinating yes and as you said I mean
yourself you you pick jobs where you felt you had to be in a train station in an airport and even the people that you
know at the time the pandemic people were thinking I can move out of the city I don’t have to live as close to the
city and they made you know real location um decisions to to move away from
expensive rents or house prices away from the city and like you said they’re
not planning on on uh going back and it’s amazing because
um I remember that there was a report last year from Accenture it’s called the tech Talent tracker and I think it
pointed out the fact that there were there are still a high number of
um Tech Professionals in London and that’s where you’ll find most of the the tech and professionals but it only grew
two percent year on year whereas Manchester grew 25 year on year it’s
just insane up up north suddenly everybody realized you know I can be remote or I can have the option as uh uh
for to now go to an office um for instance in in the north um and check in with my colleagues once
or twice a week and not have to to come down to London and it’s been such a
change for everybody and it’s it’s she said it’s I think it depends on the person as well doesn’t it if you’re
somebody that likes to be in the office five times a week fair enough you might you know live in an environment that you
want to leave the house every day and you want that routine and you still want to commute um but it is nice now to have the choice
and as you said a lot of people are now thinking I wouldn’t take up a job if it
required me to be in a certain amount of days um in London and that’s something that I’ve done and it’s very expensive and
the prices are still going up and you know all of those um things that you contend with uh working in working in
the city um I mean there are obviously a lot of benefits to individuals
um and their work-life balance that there are also benefits to organizations aren’t they relocating
um or opening offices in other areas of the UK and you know not paying London rents for instance I
mean that’s a big one isn’t it huge um I was fortunate enough that the
budget when we were looking at office spaces wasn’t a driver the culture was the driver and that’s what I was really
focused on building the culture that we want as an organization because a lot of people talk about culture and and it’s a
it’s a slide on a slide deck about the importance of culture but an octet wolf really is important
um so I was more concerned about having people in the office to build that culture then I was necessarily about
rent but you’re absolutely right for many organizations that want to open a big thriving office the costs in London
are restrictive shall we say so when we first started looking I honestly thought
that because it was straight after the pandemic I thought in rents there’ll be so much office space that rents will be
a lot lower so it could be a great time but I was I was wrong there weren’t really any different at all
um but compared to the cost of of being up north and as well as that you know having
people in cities that want to come into the office is a lot easier and to create that buzzing environment
when you look at London how many people have that after work relationship where
they’ll go out for some dinner they’ll have some drinks because they’ve always got a train to catch we don’t have that
problem here because you know being in Newcastle we can pop out for lunch together we can go for go somewhere
after work and everybody’s maybe maximum half an hour from the office so it
doesn’t make it difficult to create those out of work relationships as well so for me the key driver was culture
yes definitely and I love the fact that the way that you phrase that it’s not just a slide in a slightly it’s
absolutely true and I think a lot of companies um they they I I’ve heard it
before on here somebody described it as um it’s not just a slack Channel um especially with women in Tech you
know saying oh we create a slack Channel and we’ve cracked it there um but you’re right the culture is more
um about how you feel at work and whether or not you know it translates from the slide deck through to how you
feel every day and there are only certain companies um where where they’re actually you know
translates and where their employees feel um comfortable and with what they do and
that they you know can continue to grow in the right company um what can companies do to attract Tech
Talent away from London do you think so this is something I’ve actually put
quite a lot of of thought into and I was presenting on a panel quite recently where we spoke about you know how what
are the challenges with that with having an office particularly in Newcastle you look you touched on Manchester there’s
been a lot of focus put on Manchester Manchester Ariza Tech Hub now but it’s also a big city for for many different
Industries but as you look at Tech you’ve got you know people in London you’ve got organized a
lot of organizations in Manchester Cambridge is quite big in Tech Leeds has
become a focus for Tech Newcastle not so much so but you would be surprised at how many organizations are moving into
Newcastle so the panel that I was on we were talking about exactly that how do
we drive more talent to Newcastle how many how do we drive more Talent outside
of London into the North and it struck me as I was talking to my stepdaughter that one of the areas that
I think were really missing is education into schools now if we don’t tell children as they’re thinking about the
career or going through their exam choices if the opportunities that you can have in many different sectors in
many different cities then they won’t know about it and they’ll either be like me and they’ll end up leaving and we
don’t want our talent to leave um and equally with universities you know we’re surrounded by universities
here we’ve got Newcastle northumbria we’ve got Durham Sunderland t-side Edinburgh just up the road we want to
bring that talent in but before I touch on the universities educating in this
school system is absolutely key I think to give people or to give children this the foresight of the the opportunities
that there are in the careers that they can start in and not only start but continue you don’t have to leave the
Northeast anymore you don’t have to leave the north to have a great career and I think that’s the starting point
when I asked my stepdaughter this same question uh who’s 15 and I said well
what do you create advice look like you know what do they talk about and she said well they talk about
um you know going into nursing or um going in to be a teacher those were
the two key things mostly public sector related and I said to it did the touch on the private sector did the touch on
the growing industries that are moving into the Northeast did the ground touch on Tech at all she said not at all so
with that it made me realize that maybe we’re missing a trick here and if we start earlier on we can guide people to
Tech roles in the Northeast and help them to understand that they don’t have to leave but equally in the universities
we have so much talent in the universities locally that we need to drive that talent to stay in the
Northeast but again that’s by awareness um and we realize that actually there is
growing awareness of of the tech sector in the north but I think we can do a lot better by shouting loudly across the
whole region to what sort of organizations are putting the head office to say what sort of organizations
are even opening offices and you know recruiting here and I think that’s a
part that we’re missing it’s all around the education yes definitely it’s too Concord um we’re
a big advocate for you can’t be what you can’t see and um we hear it often that a lot of ladies
fall into Tech we hear that often because all it all he would have taken was you know somebody coming in and
giving a talk at your stepdaughter’s score and you know just being at a careers fair and somebody just
highlighting the great uh career that is available in technology and that you don’t have to
leave the North or wherever it is that you may live and and it just takes one person I’ve had several guests on here
saying I was at a careers Cruise fair and I just happened to bump into somebody that you know that pointed me
in the direction of Technology um and just that that moment can you know changed that that lady’s career
path um entirely but as you said if school was talking about completely different career routes
um you know all valid career choices um but it’s nice to have you know somebody come in and talk about as you
said the up and coming um sectors as well to then be able to to decide
um which one is for you I think as well you’re correct in people not just
knowing the opportunities available to them but not always knowing as well that the world isn’t centered around London
and I remember having that feeling um I left the city in 2015 I didn’t I
didn’t leave for the pandemic but I joined a company where when I interviewed with the lady we met at
London Liverpool Street and and we chatted and it turned out that she lives
um only down the road from me in Essex and um she said well our offices are only down the road from where I live and
but we’d met at London Liverpool Street because we assumed you know everybody works around London and that’s where
we’re going to need to meet but it turned out we were right near each other so obviously I never thought I would
have a local job and that was when I left the city because you just it
doesn’t cross your mind does it that you have opportunities near where you live so my mindset changed from that point on
because I started to think oh I don’t have to commute anymore you know this is great so when the pandemic come around
and everyone else was thinking I don’t want to commute anymore I was thinking well I’ve had some some years of this so
far um so yeah you just you don’t always realize do you you don’t even look
locally that’s that’s where you always put London in the job search and don’t even think of looking
local no and that’s a shame really we do need to look broader it’s a
misconception that you have to be in you know a big city to have a job you
don’t you absolutely don’t but you you have to look for it as well a lot of it’s awareness like we’ve said changing
impressions of different cities I think we’ve all got impressions of certain cities you know newcastle’s got an
impression of lots of Hindus and statues and a great night out which you know I wouldn’t argue with it is a great night
out but you know it’s changing that impression to take it from the the
conception to uh to reality and how the world has changed yes definitely um I
must say that with Newcastle I have been through it on the train and as I went through there were lots of girls and
guys that are all you know having a great time within the train station and I thought exactly that and I think people have the same feeling when they
come through train stations in Essex they get exactly what they think they’re gonna get
always good to stay um the refocus from the capital do you
think it will help diversity in tech and and kind of solve that problem because you were mentioning about a commute
earlier you know there must be a lot of ladies and not just ladies but you know parents for instance who are thinking I
don’t now have to tag on a commute you know that’s really going to help um women in tech for instance think you
know actually I can I can go for a role that I probably wouldn’t have normally have gone for absolutely you’ve got the
flexibility now um you’ve got the flexibility in many places for hybrid working working from
home or office working I’m a big advocate of being in the office but also totally accept that you’ve got hybrid
working um and and people do need flexibility to fit in around their lives and and I’m
absolutely fine with that because I’m coming I’ve spent quite a lot of
time thinking about diversity late lately and and growing a business and
culture because it really is key for me and I think the whole People’s First
strategy as I put it if you give people what they need in terms of training
tools flexibility culture work-life balance everything else will follow
um and I think if you can do that and allow people the flexibility to fit their roles to a degree around the job
that they need to do then you get a lot better performance out of people and I do think that’s I think that’s hugely
important and it’s the way the world’s going we have to you know we don’t clock in and clock out with a piece of
cardboard every day that I remember in my first job we’re just not that regimented I also think there’s a large
degree as well though that during the pandemic because people were at home the people working remotely they ended up
working an awful lot more hours than they were expected to yeah
um so I think that work-life balance um and being flexible is absolutely key
when I first started in Tech I was I was one of very few women in any organization I worked for a large
company at one at one time and it was also you know you’d call it the suits because it was all men and there may
have been a handful of us um of us women around and somebody pointed it out to me quite recently and
I hadn’t even noticed but if you come into the office or you even look at the leadership team here an awful lot of
them are women and it wasn’t by by Design so this myself the head to Amir there’s the head of customer success the
head of the SDR team recruitment HR
um there are so many females that have come into the organization the head of marketing Premier not just at heads-off
roles but in many different roles so I’ve got there are there are ladies across every Department in the company
and it was only when somebody pointed out that I thought actually that’s so different to when I started
I don’t know whether it’s it’s the Northeast I think it’s probably across all um all companies geographically now but
I do think having that flexibility to be close to home without having to have that commute will encourage further Dei
and and that’s key for organizations moving forward we have to do it and it’s the right thing to do yes definitely and
and you’re right it’s I think some companies try harder than others and and notice that being more diverse you know
has um a lot of benefits to it and you know I’m sure as you grew as a company
and you were seeing the benefits of of having more women in leadership kind of just uh continued
um across the board and and I think so you’re saying about you know flexibility
um within a company I’m assuming as well that your employees are quite loyal because of that because you’re quite
trusting of your employees then then they stick around I’m assuming that a lot of those ladies you know that
they’ve been there sometime and they’ll they’re and it’s a career that you go into and think I’m going to stay here
for for a while rather than just people sort of coming and going every one to two years because they’re trusted
absolutely and I hope so so to give you an idea of where this came
from at arctic wolf um and the thinking actually came from the us so we started off as a Silicon
Valley business and Silicon Valley is very transitory you know if if you want another job you can go next door and get
another job because it’s where all of the tech companies are so there was very little very very little loyalty in you
know if somebody came along with the better offer very often you would take it the commute into into Silicon Valley
is hard it’s expensive San Francisco and all of that area is is uh is incredibly
expensive so I consider that a little bit like London quite a lot like London
an actual fact an arctic wolf many years ago moved the head office to Minnesota
so and back then it was It was kind of news You Know Arctic wolves moved their headquarters to Minnesota which wasn’t
particularly it wasn’t known as a tech Hub at the time um and what they got from then was
exactly what we’re talking about they got loyalty they got um a long tenure so our churn of staff
is incredibly low because people can build their lives close to the office and we also have an awful lot of women
not just in leadership but across the entire organization and they did that without thinking that
that was what they were trying to achieve they did that to move away from
Silicon Valley and and for several other reasons but the results of it were absolutely key so
when the CEOs asked me why I was going to move the office to London I said well you know that’s where you’re expected to
have your office whether that’s in the center of London down the M4 corridor and he said to me but clay you don’t
live in London and I said well no I I don’t and he said well put the office where you are he said how can you build
the culture of the company where you are it how can you build the culture of the company like we we want you to do if you
aren’t going to be in or in in the office every day and we all kind of stood there and thought well why not why
not put the office in Newcastle why are we thinking about putting the office in London and without the design of thinking about
that focusing more on culture what we’re talking about has happened so we’ve got
royal staff we’ve got a lot more women we’ve got the culture that we want all of that has come by opening the office
here but that wasn’t by Design it’s it’s happened so I think if you look at you know following what they did in the US
and us doing it here I think there’s some key point is to take from that yes definitely just being more Mindful
and not just you know people just just going with what they know and opening another office in another part of London
or they think they’ve really gone forever a field because they’ve gone you know North London to South London
yeah it’s on a different tube line that’s it
um do you think there will be uh there will come a time when London isn’t a hub for Tech talent in the UK
I’m not completely sure I think it’s always going to be a hub it’s a capital city you know there’s there’s always
going to be Finance I would say in the capital city there’s always going to be Tech in the capital city the airports
have a lot more Roots there’s a lot of advantages for many organizations being in the capital but that doesn’t mean
that every you can’t have Tech hubs in other places as well and there’s still people that live in the south that want
to be in London or that live close to London so it’s the capital city and the biggest population I think we’re always
going to have a hub there for many Industries but I think we can have hubs elsewhere as well we don’t have to have
one main Hub and very small micro dot hubs elsewhere I think we can create more Manchester’s yes definitely yeah
which is is beneficial for um for everybody working in the industry and you know the industry as well it
changes so incredibly fast um and and anything that we can do to to help people within it obviously even you
know where you work and and how you work um obviously has a massive effect but I’m we’re almost out of time and I
wanted to ask you um about the industry changing incredibly fast you’re working one very very fast-paced industry in
security and but I wanted to ask you do you have any thoughts or predictions for the tech industry in the UK and and
where it’s going to go ah so you know so so I’ve worked in many different parts
of of tech um I’ve worked in backup I worked I started in Security in in wireless
security I’ve worked in um storage and now I’m in cyber security and it does change you know with the
invention of the cloud as an example we moved away from having all of your data
it’s on site to putting them in in in the cloud and they became this buzzword
of the cloud and the cloud has grown it’s not going to stop growing you know the cloud is is really important
the security industry is incredibly interesting because breaches and these Bad actors as we call
them just get clever they find different ways to to attack organizations that’s not just that’s not going to change I
think security is going to continue becoming more and more and more important to organizations because data
is key and for organizations to be under threat or to have down time to lose
their business means losing customers I think security is going to become more and more of a focus whereas in the past
you could buy some products to fix point point problems security is becoming a
really really big thing so I think cloud and security and then you look at all of
these things like artificial intelligence I.T in Tech or getting really clever you
know we can’t it advances it progresses text never going to go away I think our
days of not having a mobile phone are gone or days of not doing anything on a laptop or gone the data Lake that you
have is just going to continue to grow and with that comes more and more problems that you have to fix so the
tech industry as a whole is going to continue to grow which means that there’s more opportunities which is great
um are you going to see challenges in certain parts of the industry of course you are you are in any part of the
industry but I think security and Cloud are going to continue to be to be a really big focus in Tech yes definitely
and I think we need more people like you who just described the tech industry as you described it there going into
schools and talking to more young people you know about about the careers in it because as you just you just described
what sounded like a very fast-paced and fun and constantly changing and challenging industry and as we spoke
about earlier um it’s just making sure that more young people know that
absolutely and it is a great career you know once you’re in Tech you don’t have to stay in security and you don’t have
to stay in one part of tech there is nobility within the tech industry because it is so vast and this Tech in
every country of the world so you can have Geographic Mobility there are so many opportunities in Tech you don’t
have to be a techie geek as we call them you don’t have to be that person there
are so many other routes into technology I had no experience in Tech I had no
knowledge of tech when they spoke to me about running a channel I thought that was the body of water between the UK and
France so the learning curve you go on is it it’s a big learning curve I’m not
going to pretend it’s not but it’s always a learning curve as Tech continues to evolve that just brings
more opportunities and for me it’s a great industry to get into and it’s an industry that constantly evolves that
constantly has new opportunities and you know I would wholly recommend that if people
are interested to just go for it you may be like me and land in Tech but if you fancy giving it a go
give it a try lovely that that is a lovely advice to
end it on because we’re already out of time in the conversation has flown by and because it’s been a pleasure thank
you so much Claire for joining us today and sharing your insights it’s been great absolutely thanks ever so much for
having me thank you for everybody joining us as always thank you for listening and we hope to see you again
Why London isn’t the only place for good tech talent
ARTICLE SUMMARY
While London remains the top destination for tech talent in the UK, there are so many exciting opportunities to be found in other areas of the UK.
Manchester, Glasgow, Cambridge and Belfast are all becoming top destinations for tech employment opportunities, start-ups and communities.
With the tech industry crying out for tech talent, we’re delving into why organisations should be casting their nets out of the capital.
To help us discuss, we’re joined by Clare Loveridge, VP & GM EMEA, Arctic Wolf.
Clare has has more than 20 years’ experience in sales and channel roles at companies like Data Domain and Nimble Storage where, as EMEA Channel Director, she helped grow Nimble’s business across EMEA.
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