In this eye-opening podcast episode, we delve into the idea that a non-linear career journey isn’t something to be feared, but rather embraced and celebrated.
Joining us today is Jane Lockwood, COO, Daemon, who shares personal anecdotes and insights as she navigated a non-linear paths.
Discover how these unconventional routes can lead to unique skill sets, diverse experiences, and ultimately, personal growth and fulfillment.
Tune in to learn why breaking away from the traditional career trajectory can be a powerful catalyst for success in today’s dynamic and ever-changing job landscape.
Unleash the potential of your non-linear career journey and take control of your path to success!
hello everyone thank you for tuning in again I am Kaye bitman the content director at she can code and today we
are discussing why a nonlinear career isn’t a bad thing we’re delving into the
idea that a nonlinear career Journey isn’t something to be feared but rather embraced and celebrated luckily I’ve got
the fabulous Jane Lockwood coo at demon with me today to share our own personal
antidotes and insights revealing how she navigated a nonlinear career path
welcome Jan thank you so much for joining me oh thank you very much ke it’s lovely to be here thank you for for
taking the time out of your busy day to to come in um and have a chat with us on spilling the tea can we start with a bit
of context a bit of background about yourself please and how you got into tick in a bit about your career Journey
yeah absolutely um I am quite literally the uh the Bastian of a nonlinear career I think you can you can successfully say
so I will I’ll sort of talk you through it I I U went to University and I actually studied food science and
nutrition um oh wow okay you’re the first I’ve heard say that on here
brilliant it was something that really interested me and you when you study a
degree like a lot of people think oh it’s just nutrition it’s you know there’s not much to it it wasn’t you know we we studied things like uh the
impact of cooking on a muscle fiber uh you know that what happens when you actually ingest visin C you know it was
vast in terms of what we covered so it was a lot of chemistry it was a you know it was very much a sence degree rather
than anything else um and I was very fortunate to have a placement year whilst I was doing that uh degree uh at
geese prepared foods and I spent six months in their salad Factory and I spent six months in their Pizza Factory
and as part of that work experience I was given two months in each area so I did accounts I did buying I did
procurement I did technical I did um uh manufacturing you name it I did it it
was an absolutely brilliant piece of um work experience that I got within my
degree and it was so interesting being a supplier to all the big retailers you know we were dealing with all all the
big names that you can think of and sitting in various meetings and seeing how they work and seeing how we work it was just a brilliant I was very
fortunate to have had such a good career and such a good placement year so sort of doing my last year I was thinking
about you know what is it that I want to do now and even at that stage you know I I know I wanted to study food I was interested in it but I didn’t really
know where I was going to end up at the end of my degree and having gone through such a great experience I thought okay
of those six areas that I tried within that within Gees which was the one that really interested me and I was like
actually do you know what I actually really enjoyed the buying side of it which bearing in mind I was a science a bit technical it’s like well that could
be that could give me an interesting point being a buyer and having a technical background it’s not often that
you get those two together so that was sort of decision number one decision number two was then okay I really
enjoyed being a supplier but I’ve also probably want to see what it’s like to be on the on the on the end of the line I want to see what it’s like to be the
retailer I want to see what it’s like to be the client so um looking at all the all the big retailers out there I
thought do you know what what what where where where does it align where what what was my natural affinity and having
been a child that had been brought up on Percy pigs and calling the caterpillar I
thought you know what if I’m going to work for a food retailer I want to go to Mars and Spencers so I I it was the only
job that I applied for I was so confident in my youth that that was the role I was going to get that I went for
it and fortunately after an assessment center and a number of interviews I actually got the role so that’s how I
ended up as a retailer to start with I was again very fortunate that that my time at M&S was brilliant I was really
lucky I started off in confectionary so I actually did spend some time buying Percy pigs uh which was so brilliant and
then I moved on to boxes of chocolates and all that kind of things so I was very lucky it’s a great way to start your career I heard a rumor we had a
developer from M&S that was on um one of our webinars and um she was on one of our podcasts and she told me that Percy
Pig turns up at the Christmas party is that true did you see that you know what it was too many years ago for me to to
to be aware of you know when I first started I think Percy pigs had only been around a couple of years and you know it
to see what what Percy and Penny and all of the rest of them I like now it’s just like every time I walk into the shop My
Little My Heart does a little flutter them I’m very emotionally attached to those little pink pigs well and they
know that apparently now they they do turn up at the Christmas party at the joy of all of the employees so I’m very
jealous that that I haven’t got to meet him in person yet maybe one day that should be my my
aspiration amazing but somehow you made it you you crossed over into the tech
industry I mean you said you know you you’d studied in stem so you must have had um you know some kind of flare there
that you thought you know this is definitely where I would like to stay in stem subjects and then you moved from
Percy pigs into the tech industry what what happened there well there was a quite a big gap in between that um
whilst whilst I was at Mar and Spencers I was fortunate enough to then meet what what turned out to be my my husband um
so I did seven years at M&S doing various areas you Percy pigs I did fish I did flowers and plants you name it I
was working in each of those areas but um we got to the situation where you the wedding bills came along the the first
pregnancy came along and and and I had had our our son William um and I was all
ready to go back to to having a career um but I think both of us then sat down
you know and had a very big conversation about a did we want somebody else to bring up our children and B how do I how
do I support him in terms of what his career aspirations were as well um we were he was in a position then where he
was spending a lot of time traveling internationally he was going over to India funny enough he was in it at the time then um so we came to the very big
S of have very big honest heart to heart and made the the decision that actually I would stay at home and that would
allow him then to do his career it was great for him it was great for the kids and at the time it just felt really
right for me and weird not I say weirdly it’s quite uniquely I did that for 10
years I took 10 years out so it wasn’t a short Gap it was a very much a long-term
Gap um and obviously a very different way to what I thought I would what I would be doing in my career at that
stage um and then interestingly when my boy started school um he start at school
with another little lad who um he was friendly with and his parents now his
father is actually my boss a demon so our kids have grown up together they’ve done lots of events they play football
matches together and cricket and rugby and all of that kind of thing and uh Steve one of our Founders had had said
to me at numerous times do you think you ever gone back to work and I was like you know what who knows I’ll keep my
eyes open I keep my ears open if something arrives it arrives and then in 2015 he gave me a call and said look J
we just had this big recruitment campaign we’ve got 250 CVS in any chance you could pop in for a couple of weeks
and just help us out I said yeah absolutely fine I’m still here I’ve never left I just popped in I didn’t pop
in for a fortnite but eight and a half years later I’m still here so as I said quite it’s quite a
unique and it’s very much a nonlinear career path as that’s kind of how I’ve got there and obviously my time with in
Demon has been I was employee number six I was very much brought in as what I call myself you know girl Friday to sort
out that filing cabinet that was building up in the corner to put some process in place to sort of you know
write some contracts to buy merchandise you know I did a little bit of everything and slowly over the last
eight years or or probably quite rapidly now you’re bearing in mind we’re sort 150 Odd as the company has grown each of
those roles have got bigger as they’ve got so big somebody else then has comeing and taken those roles and by virtue I find myself at the COO role
with all the roles IED to do before now other people looking after them I see and it’s always so
interesting to hear um we hear it often on this on this podcast and from ladies on on our Live Events as well about
companies of people that have returned to work after a break and the companies that grab hold of those employees
because that little bit of just you know training to to to get somebody back into the workplace or train them up or
whatever it is that they need them to do and that job they need them to do then those employees I mean you just said you
know you popped in for two weeks and you stayed for eight years those employees are very loyal in the sense that you
know they’ve been given a chance they’ve been you know um given the opportunity to uh have some training to get you back
into the to the workforce and then you stick around because of that so it’s um
very much kind of you know you was given that opportunity you realized it was a great employer um and you you stayed put
for far longer than two weeks yeah I think I’m also Al I would
say this is sort of still how demon is um it was very much a case of and it’s quite refreshing I would say probably
even eight years on but my initial conversation with them when we were talking about me working for them on a more permanent basis was I I have two
children at that stage I had you know another one and my husband’s not around very much if I need to go I’m going to
go if I want to go to a football match I’m going to go and they would and they were just so open-minded about it and just said absolutely why are we even
having this conversation you know if we contract you for 20 hours a week we mind if you do at 9:00 at night or 9:00 at
the morning do what you need to we’re not going to set any expectations live your life do what you need to do with
your children and your family and come to work and it was very refreshing at the time it was it was absolutely
brilliant for me it the the the the alignment of that happening at that time and my children being that little bit
older it was absolutely brilliant and I think it’s that you like you say the Loyalty that I have to them that allowed
me to do that and I still do it now you know and everybody in Demon does that it’s a really lovely way of working and
a lot of companies say you can do it when you attempt to go and do exactly
that where are you why don’t you change your desk exactly that well you know and I speak to my colleagues now they say oh sorry I can’t not I’m out walking the
dog at the moment I’ll give you a call in half an hour no problem yeah and today we’re gonna talk a little bit
about linear and nonlinear career paths can we start with what is the difference
between a linear and nonlinear career path okay so I think it’s obvious been thinking about
this in in advance of our conversation I I I my sort of definition of a of a linear career path would be probably
more of a traditional career path um where you progress through a series of jobs in a specific field you know
typically as you as you progress you get increased responsibility you get more pay if you look at something like
accountancy for example you will um you’ll start out at an entry level accountant you’ll work your way up to a
senior accountant a manager and then eventually even probably a partner or something at a firm so that that is what
you know we would class traditionally as you know as a traditional career path a nonlinear career path um is obviously
much more flexible and and probably a lot more unpredictable um it’s not you know in five years you’re not
necessarily going to be here or in 10 years you’re going to be here it’s what you want it to be in five years or what you want it to be in 10 years it’s going
to involve changing jobs it can involve changing Industries and it even careers all together it could be something
completely different and I think this type of PA this career path is becoming more common the job market um it’s just
more reflective of the way that we live our lives now the world is more Dynamic people want more meaning they want more
fulfillment from their work and that’s not always going to be in the same career and the same path and the same way of doing it and you know I we talk
about my experience quite a lot in in over the next couple of questions but but for me I never would have got the opportunities that I have if I just
stuck in stuck in in one field yes exactly that and I think you are right is it is becoming more common
as well because I think employers is it’s Dawning on them that people priorities change and throughout
your life and throughout your career and like you said you know you got married you had children and your priorities
changed and what you wanted to do changed you don’t always know fresh out of University what you want to do the
career path that you want to take and and sometimes I think having had conversations with um graduates they
feel that if they haven’t picked that career path and they don’t know what they want to do it’s almost like they’re failing before they’ve even left
University like you’re meant to know exactly what that path is is going to look like um and I wish even going back
to my younger self as as if you could say you know it doesn’t matter you can try different things and people are not
going to frown upon you moving around and trying new things and that good employers just grab hold of good talent
and that all of those lots of different skills can come from lots of different um career Transitions and um even taking
a career break and the things that you learn when when you become a parent and all of those new skills that happens
absolutely just things that you wouldn’t have known previously so you know it’s kind of why why do people think you have
to leave uni and have it all mapped out it’s just such a Mis misconception it is it is completely I think I think it’s um
you know and we do we we put ourselves under too much pressure I think you know we’re all guilty of doing that and especially when you’re young and you’re
that unsure and I think almost you know to a certain extent almost s associated with the fact well what do you mean you don’t know what you’re doing you don’t
know what to do for a career path it’s and it and I think it’s getting better I think it is improving but I think those
you know the sort of um the early years are so much more important than just
what you’re going to do for the next 40 years yeah and two examples that I think what s really relevant to this is if you
look at um the amount of people that go to university and get a degree or further education the proportion of
those people people that then go on to study that or or have a career path in that chosen subject is really very small
nowadays it’s more about being a to be able to apply yourself for three or four years and learn a topic that then opens
your door the doors to so many other opportunities that you didn’t even think about when you’re 18 the fact you’ve managed to apply yourself got yourself a
really good qualification that opens doors that you just don’t expect and something like um I was reading around
uh the top 10 my my my my my second son has just done as gcsc my first son is is
at second year of University so whole higher education further education there’s a lot of buzzwords around our house at the moment and we were looking
at top 10 degrees and and interestingly the number one uh subscribed degree in the UK is psychology which I was
fascinated about that’s like that’s very very interesting but then if you look at the number of people that then go on to
do a psychology based career the fraction of the people that do that degree is tiny but all of those people
you will find will probably be absolutely fine getting around but it won’t necessarily be in the straight psychology field so I thought that was
really interesting the other thing as well that I think is really important for not even necessarily younger people
just you know I I I I must say I teach it to my kids or something I I hold very dear to my to myself is all those soft
skills that you will be learning in parallel when you’re taking on any qualification whether it be a technical qualification or not and I’m not talking
necessarily about presentation skills or managing upwards you know those ones that you would talk about in the corporate world this is more things like
pragmatism self-awareness empathy motivation those kind of things also
known as emotional intelligence and I think emotional intelligence for me is probably the most fundamental skill that you can you can develop and you should
be developing it from one from day one I think it’s probably the most important life skill you can have um it’s just
something that resonates with me very strongly yes definitely and I think all of those as well you start to pick up
from University like you said sometimes the skills you pick up even when you’re studying even if you don’t know what you
want to do and I had lots of friends at Uni who used their whole uni experience not really knowing what they wanted to
do even when they graduated but you pick up a lot of skills along the way all those soft skills I remember my parents
said to me when I came back from University I was a different person and it was only because I had lived away for
three years and I felt like I really come out of my shell because I was allowed to live away and be my own
person and it was just I I always said even you know the qualification it’s worth it but actually the experience of
who you become when you’re at University is so so worth it not necessarily the
job that you might go into when you do graduate and that is really difficult as well because um I wanted to ask you a
little bit about you know we’re told from a young age that we have to know what we want to do um you know we’ve
spoken about that some people don’t even know when they leave uni but what do you do if you truly don’t know what you want
to do where you know what what do you do well I would say first and foremost you would kind of ask your question about
what what excites you what you know what gives you a buz what’s it you know you if you’re somebody that fundament doesn’t like English you’re not going to
do a degree in English are you it’s simple things like that if you if you’re science L do a science-based degree
don’t worry about the future just what is that thing and I would always say that make sure it’s something that you’re engaged with You’re motivated
with it feels like a good opportunity for you rather than necessarily a tick boox exercise that says I probably
should go into this field or I probably should go into that field so kind of be my my number one thing and I think you
know it’s interesting that that that that we talk about what we’re supposed to do and what we’re not supposed to do
especially at a young age again coming back to my son who’s 19 I had a really interesting conversation with him over the weekend and just said to him about
when he comes out of University when he’s looking F further a field into future careers what is it that he’s
looking at and we kind of had this quite good conversation over the dinner table the other night and we we kind of summarized three really interesting
points my parents and probably their parents were from a generation where it was normal for the man to go out to
work my generation so obviously I’m obviously a lot younger than my parents and my grandparents my generation is
very much geared towards all of us working but in theory creating this work life balance yeah now interestingly his
generation is much more focused on enjoyment personal fulfillment healthy
lifestyle so what you could say is there is a life work balance whereas my generator work life balance there is a
life work balance which was really interesting when we looked at and thought they’re looking for something different and it’s always evolving and
it’s absolutely right and so should it be we all spend so much time at work we have to find that thing that ticks all
those boxes for us in all the right places yes definitely I I couldn’t agree more and and you are right things are
changing through generations and I think employers are starting to catch on as to what people want what their their
candidates are looking for and how to draw in um good talent because I I wanted to ask you about how do we uh
should we be moving away from this Narrative of kind of you should know what you want to do and if you haven’t
got it or you haven’t got 10 years of work experience by the time you go and apply for a job it’s almost like a
company is going to look at you and and think well you’re I love the word the phrase that Wiggly careers and that
keeps coming up and if it looks like you’ve had that squiggly career it doesn’t always look like oh you know
perhaps an employer will think oh you know she wasn’t committed in that area or you know and we really need to move
away from that narrative don’t we that you have to have it all figured out and you have to have a very clear career
path completely I mean I think nonlinear career paths becoming the new Norm yes I
would really hope that that is is where we’re going to get to from a personal point of view I feel I’ve gained more experience in my working life I’ve got
better personal development obviously as a result of that I’ve got better skill set probably than if I’d stuck on a traditional trajectory in terms of a
career I think in interesting you know it would be it would be naive of us not to bring the pandemic into it I think
the situation that we found ourselves I think that’s had quite a lot of uh impact on people um and how they’re
looking at their their longer term careers you know we all know people that have moved completely away from from the industry that they are in PRI post the
pandemic and just you know having had time to think about these things and look at what they’re doing and thinking is this really what I want to do no and
it was a really good opportunity for a lot of people to just sort of reset and say I can look at doing other things I
can look at other things I can look at other qualifications so I think that was really good and and I think as well obviously as much about the um the
career path that you follow I think it’s also really important to find that company that’s right for you everybody’s
got different aspirations in terms of what they want out of their career but I think finding the right company for you in terms of what they what what’s
important to you is really important you you know nowadays it’s not just about what was the old days it was
all about salary it’s not about that anymore it’s about career opportunities it’s about culture it’s about well-being
it’s so much more than it ever used to be and it’s quite interesting bringing it back to demon again when when people
join demon they go through three interviews they have a technical interview so you know what’s the role in
compass and and is that their sweet spot we have a second interview then which is a culture interview where they’ll come
in and talk to members of the culture team understand what Demon’s all about we understand what they’re all about is
there an actual Synergy are we on their wavelength do we get what was important to them yes or no and then finally
everybody then will also talk to the founders because at the end of the business you know at the end of the day
the business is set up by the founders and it’s very much their ethos their ideas and if they can sit and have a chat with the the founders and say yeah
I get it they’ve come through those three stages and said yeah you know demon reflects what’s important to me as
an individual they turn up on day one and half of the sort of you know the the scaredness of oh my goodness what this
is going to be like they’ve experienced a lot of bit on the along through the interview process so I think really you know coming back to that initial Point
that’s just what we do in Demon but finding that company that suits you not just about your your career but all the
other stuff that goes with it is really really important nowadays and a good thing it’s a good thing that we’re putting a a lens on this now where we
haven’t historically yes I I I love everything you just said there about
your interview process and just acknowledging as well that people want to know that people want to know in
depth about your culture they don’t want to be thrown into a job and then they realize actually this wasn’t for me and
it does work both ways you know employers trying to figure out are you the best candidate for us and our
culture um and vice versa um there was a a report from um uh deoe that I’ve
mentioned on on here before and it was uh around there was a pointing there around young people that previously
young people younger Generations used to look at things as you said like salary that was important and they found that
nowadays young people are actually more interested in diversity culture and and
they’re asking about those things in the interview process because they don’t want to work in companies where you know
they get thrown in and they think this was nothing like what I thought it was going to be like they really want to make sure um that they’re joining
somewhere as you said that gets them as well you know just a company that gets you and understands you and that sense
of belonging um is so important to to people nowadays and you know if if a
company doesn’t get you or you have that feeling of perhaps this isn’t for me
more people nowadays they’re just they’re just leaving you know you can’t retain good talent if you’re not
flexible in that way um or if you you know really and don’t try hard to obviously retain your employees um and
some of that as well uh it can come around a there’s noise cut that out
sorry I wanted to talk to you a little bit about uh you took a career break to have children did um how did you prepare
for coming back to work I know you said you know you you thought you were going in for two weeks and you ended up same
for eight years H did you do anything in in between that when you were coming back to kind of prepare for coming back
to the workplace well I think after 10 years away from the workplace raising children
your negotiating skills improve no end so uh that was the first thing that I sort of concentrated on and probably
honed honed in for quite well in over 10 years because we all know that if you’ve got small people but you know they they do take they do take some negotiation
sometimes but but it all seriously I I you know I didn’t actively look for roles uh in preparation for coming back
to work but I did make sure that I kept myself still involved little things lots of little things um I volunteered at my
kids school um helping them to grow vegetables um I volunteered again at my kids school helping to put on the the
annual play and you know coordinating the costumes and doing the design and little things like that which just kept
me active the other thing as well or or the other thing that I really enjoyed doing is is working in in voluntary um
organizations within my local community uh we would do gardening and things like that for disabled people older people
that couldn’t cope and you’re turning up there on a Wednesday morning in the truck with all your mud and and every
you their faces when you walked out the door was just such a lovely thing to do but it was as much as you know making
sure I’m was still planning everything and I’m coordinating things and I’m training others and you know there’s all
the organization of making sure everybody’s in the right place with the right equip at the right time it it might seem like a tenuous link but it it
still soft skills absolutely again lots and lots of soft skills and just keeping
your mind active keeping it motivated keeping it in the workplace just keeping it you know a fresh of not just being
not becoming stale and you know and I say that you’re not supposed to be derogatory to to some to people that
stay at home and look after children but you’ve got to keep your eyes open you got to keep aware of what’s going on for me that worked really well my personal
fulfillment as well I absolutely love doing things like that so it was brilliant and as I say it kept all those
soft skills going again as well yes definitely and we’ve spoken on here a little bit um already about uh nonlinear
career paths um and I I wanted to ask you a little bit about are are there benefits to a nonlinear career path it’s
I suppose it’s normally seen as a negative like as in you know an employer might look and we’ve spoken a little bit
about that and I kind of question what on Earth was she doing why does career path like absolutely and I
suppose if you’re transparent about your career path and why you went in lots of
different directions and picked up lots of skills with you along the way I suppose there are lots of benefits to
that isn’t there 100% I I I couldn’t agree more I think you know I although I
before I answer this question I think I’ll probably just put a cat in you know there are lots of people that want train
chase choose a vocation such as doctors and accountants and and and you know all those kind of careers I’ve got the
upmost most respect for those people and by virtue of the fact their’s will always be a in a career and I and I’m is to say cudos to them that they they
follow a career through and and do it for years and years on end absolutely BR so I’m not saying anything you know
contradictory to to to what they do from a from a traditional point of view but for me personally my um I would say my
nonlinear career has allowed me to expose to so many more interesting situations and scenarios from that I’ve
developed so I’ve I’ve experienced so much more personal learning and personal growth would have I got exposure if I’d
stayed in one career probably not I’d probably say I wouldn’t to compare to what I have with my view and perspective
into science retail and now it I feel I could change jobs Industries or careers Al together um with with the skill set
that I’ve developed over the years and and I think if my CV sat on front in somebody’s desk they’d say that’s interesting how come she’s been all over
the place like this and it actually would create a conversation piece in Tech because people come in
from all different routs and that’s that’s the great thing about the industry yeah yeah so I mean I I
completely believe there are benefits to a nonlinear career allows people to develop their personalized career path as well that’s the other thing at
different stages you want different things you know your personal fulfillment is therefore better you can
use the skills and talents the talents that you develop along the way to make a difference and and actually work on
stuff that you feel passionate about which I think is really important if you want to get up to go to work every day that is 90% of the bom yes
yes I know I I love that I I definitely agree that there are benefits to um
nonlinear career pass I do think sometimes employers not even an employer
you know say it’s a recruiter looking at your CV and they might think that’s a red flag but if somebody really knows
you um or has met you then that you know they can see all the benefits that have come with it and and I am wondering do
you think employers favor linear careers over nonlinear careers because even though we might assume that it’s seen as
a negative moving around actually a lot of employers probably think that is a very well-rounded person that comes with
lots and lots of different skills you know surely that’s employers must see it
that way as well well I I wholeheartedly agree I mean you know that there’s always arguments both sides as we’ve
talked about you know every employer and every employee is different uh and there will always be a requirement for
traditional career path I completely completely agree with that overall I do
believe though that employer preferences have actually shifted I think they are shifting from the linear path to to more
diverse hiring personally if I’ve got three CVS that are on my desk and there’s a similar skill set I will
choose the candidate that’s got the more diverse background to the one that doesn’t the you know the additional life
experience is invaluable when it comes to decision making or problem making for problem problem solving for example um
and those candidates with career breaks as well you know there was always we talked about before when you’ve got a big gap in your career it was a well
we’ll put that CB in in the bin not anymore it’s just a different world now you know the fact that I chose to took
10 years off to raise my children I don’t think that’s penalized me um I really don’t think it has I’ve just got
on done what I’ve need to do I can perfectly explain why there’s nothing on my CV for 10 years so why should that be
a derogatory Gap in my CV it’s not it’s just just my life took a different path at that time so you know I from my
personal point of view as I say the more diverse the CV personally that that’s more interesting to me that makes me
look further and go that’s really exciting that’s what that’s what I want to do I think we one of the things that I wanted to mention is at demon we were
very fortunate um last year to work with a company called Tech returners and we SP teers aren’t they brilliant so we
sponsored one of their programs that um that that bring people into the tech center uh tech tech sector should I say
these people either returning to the to a career break or or having a career change and we brought on a number of
people from this scheme and what they have brought to demon as a completely different way of looking at their career
paths and them as individuals it’s been brilliant their diversity of thinking they’ve brought
such a refreshing change and actually they’ve challenged us in a number of different ways about why do you do it like this why do we look at this why
can’t we look at this as an opportunity so that’s been hugely fulfilling for us and them and it’s a great opportunity
where you know that’s a whole group of people that are coming to a new industry or coming to a new opportunity and with
it bringing lots of stuff for us as the employer as well yes and things as well that you might not have even thought of
because they come with complete diversity of forms and skills that you didn’t even probably know that you were
where that you needed in in your Workforce and and we’ve spoken a little bit about non-traditional Roots um and and soft
skills today um and I wanted to just touch upon that a little bit more um and
how non-traditional Roots into Tech can can help your soft skills because um I had a a a lady on here previously who
she was a returner to Tech she had taken a Break um for children and she said when she transitioned into Tech uh she
said it it it took me a little while to kind of dawn on me that even though I felt very Junior because it was my first
role I’d actually been in work 15 plus years at that point it’s easy to think
that Dawns on you actually taking a nonlinear route you know you’ve been in
work you’ve got all of these wonderful skills and just reminding just almost taking a step back and thinking actually
I’m not Junior I I’m at an advantage surely you know that that has so many um
benefits absolutely absolutely and actually what I will do you know in answer to your question is I’d like to S
to of the people that we’ve got to do demon um as are really good examples of two people that have changed their careers so um first of all I’ll talk
about Naomi um Naomi joined us earlier in the year um she’s previously worked
in ux and UI and an interior designer um having joined demon you know having
having Al to say historically having worked in a sort of a creative and a design-based field that’s pretty different to what we do at demon so
she’s brought something completely different to us all and made us all sit up and look and just say that’s a really interesting interesting way of looking
at things differently to what we did before and what’s interesting she she heads up our um social working party so
as well as you know all the awesome stuff she can do from a career point of view she also brings a different way of
looking at things she’s stepping outside of her comfort zone stepping into a role like that where you’re responsible
you’re not responsible but you’re looking after all the social aspects of the business she’s only very Junior but
because she’s used to changing she’s made a big change she’s also willing to take on big jobs big roles get involved
it’s opened her eyes to probably more opportunities than it would if she just stuck with the with doing the same thing
so I think name is a really interesting example the second lady that I was going to talk about is Fran um who again she
joined us this year um Fran was previously a university lecturer in
Neuroscience I know and now she’s got us PR cool job thinking outside the box she
really has made us think differently we have this um great event at demon uh
which we call our Demon Days um and we have them twice a year and the Endeavor of the Demon Days is to get everybody in
the same room which is really great yes it’s really important that just have that time invariably we spend time
talking and laughing and and you know have some presentations but just generally it’s all about connecting and coming back together and in our last
demon day back in June um she gave us a presentation a fascinating presentation on what she called people culture and
the demon brain and it was a huge open eye opener for all of us it was absolutely incredible it was so engaging
you could just look around the room and everybody was just like wow wow wow that’s what my brain’s doing now that’s
what I’m thinking was absolutely brilliant so she brings that to us but then also as well she’s taken on the
mantle and I say it’s a mantle of being our environmental Champion so yes she’s working in the tech sector yes she
brings this interesting Neuroscience University background but she’s also now
um in charge of achieving our Net Zero status she’s involved in all of our
putting together our ESG um reporting and our positioning and things like that
a really really good example of two engineers and I of both of them that have chosen nonlinear careers and as a
result can bring so much more even to a employer like demon it’s just like wow these girls are coming in and they’re
absolutely setting the world on fire and we’re all just you know sitting back and saying this is incredible These Guys
these girls these guys girls are absolutely brilliant and having that confidence as well I the way you
described both of them they sound very you know happy to try new things and and
move ahead sometimes you know we kind of we overthink things and think oh you know it here’s a reason why I want to
try something and here’s 10 reasons why I shouldn’t even attempt it and sometimes just having the confidence to
try new things that really shows in um employees that that are confident in in
moving around and and you know just wanting to give new things a go um and and that’s you know a lovely um uh staff
member to have and a lovely part of the team as well to have that that feeling of driving everybody forward and and
feeling that we can try new things um we are almost out of time and I have one last question for you do you have any
advice for our listeners anyone that is kind of thinking I’m thinking about taking a nonlinear career or have taken
one and not quite sure what to do now sure I I thought about this thought about this question long and hard and
actually I found it relative having thought about it I thought yeah know that’s what it is and it’s for me it
feels really simple but but my advice would be always look for opportunities that interest you um it’s similar to
what I was talking about before regardless of the career or the industry you’re in if you’re motivated by your
job your personal Journey will continue to evolve you will grow into these roles and you’ll have so much more to offer
your employer I think that’s that’s what it’s all about if you’re not interested or emotionally engaged in what you’re doing and you spent years there how are
you keeping yourself motivated what I was saying to you before are you waking up in the morning and thinking yippe I’m going to work you’re not you’re going to
be thinking yippe I’m oh dear I’m going to work again that’s really not right and the employer is not getting the best
out of you and you’re not getting the best out of yourself and you’re not developing as an individual you’re not growing you’re not evolving you’re not
developing your skill set so I think you know fundamentally find the opportunity
that interests you the rest of it will all fall into place and it push the boundaries ultimately you got to enjoy
what you got to do and you shouldn’t be curtailed by previous generations
previous ideas preconceived ideas should all be about what motivates you and what makes you excited and when you find
that brilliant yeah yes it is rare to find and it is rare to find um being at
the the right employer that gets you and I think one of the biggest misconceptions about being in Tech and
coming into the tech industry is that you have to have had a computer science degree abut to come in
it’s yes I completely agree there is nobody less technical than myself and I
find myself in this position in a very much a technical industry so world is everybody’s oyster if I can do it
anybody else can well that is lovely um that is a lovely point to end it on thank you so
much jie it’s been an absolute pleasure and it has flown by so thank you so much for taking the time to join us today
likewise thank you so much for having me thank you for everybody joining us as always thank you for listening and we
hope to see you again next time
