Recent reports suggest that there is a disconnect between C-Suite leaders and their employees.
This disconnect has been particularly heightened due to the COVID-19 pandemic. A recent report from Deloitte found that while 9 in 10 executives felt they understood what their employees went through during the pandemic, roughly half of workers agreed.
The return to office movement has only served to widen the misalignment between senior leaders and their teams. According to Achievers, 56% of HR executives said their company leaders don’t appreciate that the world of work has changed.
So, in this ever-evolving world of work, what can C-Suite leaders learn from their employees?
Today, we’re joined by Anna di Silverio, President, Europe, and Alice Senkunga, Business Operations at Avanade. Together with Anna and Alice, we’ll be looking at what can be done to close this misalignment and what senior leaders can learn from all levels of workers.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in I am Katie Boatman the content director at chican code and today we’re discussing
what lessons c-suite leaders can learn from all levels of workers now recent
reports suggest that there is a disconnect between its c-suite leaders and their employees this disconnect has
been particularly heightened due to covid-19 and a report from Deloitte found that while 1910 Executives felt
they understood what their employees went through during the pandemic only roughly half of workers agree so as
workers return to the office in this ever evolving world of work what can c-suite leaders learn from their
employees today I’m lucky to be joined by two fabulous ladies from avenard Anna
D Silverio president for Europe and Alison Kanga business operations both
from avenard to discuss what can be done to close this misalignment and what senior leaders can learn from all levels
of their workers welcome ladies thank you thank you so much for joining me this
morning it’s pleasure to have you both uh on for for a chat today can we both
um can we start with a quick intro from both of you please this little bit background about your sales
um Alice should we start with you sure uh as you said my name is Alice I have
been I’ve not for about two years now and I’m a bit of a
unexpected person to be in Tech because I started off in the car industry um moved on from that joined Avan RT as
a girl and I’m part of I would say the young crowd after the oven art so
um that’s all about me as we’d love to hear where people come from in Tech it’s so interesting to hear
the roots in that’s the first one I’ve heard from the car industry it’s so interesting Anna where where did you
come from uh so uh Anna I come from the technology background I started here as
well someone who had a plan to go into tick yeah I started as a developer and I
really love technology since the beginning and I had the opportunity to progress my career into Technologies for
many years I’ve been with Microsoft in Microsoft Consulting and then in the
last 13 years with Alana in leadership positions so I’ve been leading before
Italy then I moved to Singapore to run the Asia Pacific business and Latin
America and more recently in the last three years I’ve been in Europe responsible for running are growing the
business of avant Europe amazing because she because she wanted to go into Tech did you was there
something about it when you were younger were you were you that person who took about I took apart the toaster or you
know it’s just something that you loved at school oh actually it’s an interesting story because my parents were absolutely
against my decision they wanted me to be a literature Professor
my dad said to me this is not a profession for women and I had to fight
to fight to you know to convince him that you know I wanted to just go to the
university and computer science because I love that I thought that that was the
future you know I was kind of informed a little nerd girl I was reading the
computer a computer Computing and you know all the Innovations were going to
change the world and I say I want to go for it and that has been the reality
yeah yeah well I’m pleased that you you fought against that and decided to to come into Tech it’s always inspiring to
hear that the different routes in and we love to hear that on the podcast that you don’t have to take a traditional
route in you can go via other Industries Alice just like yourself and still come in and have a successful career in Tech
um so today we’re going to be talking about leadership um so what do you think are the key qualities and skills needed to be a
great leader so I start
um you know I reflected I reflected a lot on leadership because you know I
always try to learn and improve myself so the quality that I consider here are
I would say Integrity passion courage and empathy
um I’ve seen the strong leaders communicate a sense of confidence you
know combining very well which is the long-term strategy division about the
future but also you know the ability to execute and in particular uh being very
capable in delegating yeah um so good leaders you know Inspire and
encourage people in their organization say in their teams to express themselves
at the best and really you know an important Mission or great leaders is to
realize the potential of their people yeah and I think all of those things as
well they’re nothing to do with qualifications and what you know but actually just how you you relate to your
team and Alice is that something that that you agree with what what key qualities uh and skills do you think are
needed I’ll say that um I mean I can only agree with everything that Anna said uh as she’s
highlighted it’s a very complex question because being a good leader is difficult to pinpoint but everyone knows when we
see one right um as a person kind of early in my
career I’m looking for someone who who’s that type of security a sense of Purity that allows me to
fully be myself so that I feel like I can you know make mistakes I can I can
express my personality and that person will sort of know how to navigate me into the right directions of where I
need to be in the organizations for me to do my best but also some security that allows me to kind of even though
they don’t know you know all the answers around everything but it’s insecurity around the fact that they are doing
their best which allows me to walk behind them um in addition to everything that Anna
just said you know yes yeah funny enough we had a conversation on here recently
about the space to be able to make mistakes um how important that is because you you
never if you with a leader and you feel like you can’t give anything a go then
you know you’re just gonna get told off for trying something and it going wrong then you never grow
um you know as an individual but also as a team if your whole you know team feels like it can’t move forward because
they’re always worried about what what the leader is going to say um
how involved should employees be in leadership decisions especially those
such as flexible working obviously which affects a lot of workers at the minute so it’s that dangerous area to leave
that open to employees what do you think um I would say that it’s
it’s a tricky one I I can understand that leaders such as Anna and others are kind of struggling with how to balance
this out because um I feel like the discussions definitely should happen at all levels in the organization but
the actual decisions I would not necessarily want them to
land at all levels because I feel like sometimes um even though this leaders should
listen to their employees that it might me as a young employee might not know the effects of a larger decision such as
uh how flexible the company can allow me to be and so on yeah and it really
depends on different people doesn’t it different people different teams exactly and how they work I mean if you think
you know some for instance I’ve always worked at publishing houses and we have we’ve always had two very set
um teams sales and editorial editorial have always been very independent and do their own things but sales teams they
have to definitely be in and they have to be around each other and it really depends on the person the team and and
the environment and Anna is that something something you’ve seen
yeah um I I think uh you know really the world is changing and the people needs
are changes so rapidly and the post pandemic word is a different one where
expectations are you know about to be more flexible having a better
um you know work-life balance um of course it takes time to you know
to transform the organizations but with the would I uh we think in particular in
my company fundamentally is to having always a strong open dialogue with our
employees so it’s fundamental really to be open to listen to understand the
expectations the needs and you know taking feedback and working on those
um so it’s important to do that in a way that is structured you know with the good service where we can really
appreciate you know the multiple perspective and and also I think
something that we do a program that in my opinion is is quite useful is the
reciprocal mentoring so you know Junior people the coach senior people in a real
you know great Mutual support way or a junior talent that provide provide the
strong feedback to senior leaders shaped all this helps a lot to close the gap
and come together you know to decisions that in the end represent a good a good
win-win for everybody yes and I think that that Gap isn’t in that senior and
Junior um leaders is is sometimes I think you
sometimes I I have personally looked at people that are very senior and I thought to myself I must try and be like
exactly like that person and that really doesn’t work either but having a mentor that kind of guides you through the
process of being yourself and how you can you know come into your own leader um your own leadership style would be
invaluable instead of just you can have to emulate that that senior lady
um uh for instance what should employers expect from today’s leadership uh and
what is most valuable what is the most valuable thing you’ve learned from your leadership so far
something that I think no one no individual really should compromise
whether is uh enjoying uh an inclusive environment and
a work environment that really allows everyone not to feel value and
respect it and where everybody really can be long and bring you know that real
self this is possible and it’s a it’s a right space expectation for everyone so
this is what we have learned now at davannada is that right to how to create
a safe environment where everyone is uh really free and uh
instant device to bring themselves um also
an important aspect of being motivated and engage that work is having a purpose
so really feeling that there is the opportunity to contribute to something
that is bigger and more important than the individual contribution or financial
goals um and what uh what we have done as a
company is really to create a mission working together whether with the contribution of all our employees in
creating a mission that in our case is making a genuine human impact through
and change the world for the better through the power of innovation and technology so this is something that is
inspiring and people all our employees people like to that all our employees
feel feel inspired by be part of oh yes amazing because I you’re
absolutely right if you if you’re in a job where you feel like you have a purpose and you’re making a difference I
think that’s where the disconnect sometimes is in technology and people seem to think you know actually you
won’t make much of a difference or an impact in the tech industry and those of us in the industry know that that you
really can that that’s really not not the case and that a lot of us work in in jobs where you can really make
um an impact and have a purpose um Alex what about yourself um uh what what have you found most
valuable and what you know what have you learned from your leadership so far um I’ve been blessed I’ve been blessed
to have really good leaders in my short career both here at Avenue and at the
previous places I’ve been um and I’d say that one thing that’s
kind of in line with what Anna’s saying is that they’ve all allowed me or taught
me the importance of honoring your uniqueness because they’ve all been very different they’ve all had different
leadership styles but their uniqueness has been um they haven’t compromised on it and
they’ve just sort of made the most of what they’re good at and uh
to kind of allow space for all aspects himself for instance me as a woman I’ve
been in male-dominated Industries am I allowed to be feminine that’s a question that a lot of women have and if
you just allow yourself the space to kind of navigate that um you can sort of
uh not compromise on that side of yourself whether that be that you’re loud or feminine or whatever you are to
kind of just honor it and become the best version of you like be the best leader you can yes I I had that exact
same conversation with a senior uh female um several years ago and I remember she said to me
um just that that being your feminine self is what makes you unique and that’s
what your team really wants to see they don’t want to see you trying to be one of the guys they want you to be you know
diverse in the way that you think and and the the um this is awful line in um just
reminded me in Calamity Jane I think it’s about uh female thinking or something like that or that she’s not
allowed to do something because that’s that’s female thinking um but actually you know which is so horrendous from the 50s
um but nowadays you know that’s that’s what people are looking for they’re looking for that diversity or Sport and
they don’t want to everybody to have the same ideas all the time so you’re absolutely right you know being true to yourself and being you and being at a
company that allows you to do that is is obviously um the main thing there
um we’re all aware that there is a lack of female representation on boards uh
but what can be done to get women at leadership levels do you think there are
still unfortunately you’re right the numbers are not encouraging but uh we
need to persist and um really going in the direction or appointing a strong
role models in compositions I think that really can make a difference and
um for example within our organization since we appointed an inspiring woman
now as this year our Palm Miner we have seen a really strong acceleration in the
direction of with more and more senior female leaders attracted to the
company because we have become very credible you know with strong senior leadership and
we’re seeing more and more um stronger female appointed in a senior
positions um of course you know the journey is a long one but I think with the right
determinations and you know showing that it’s possible things are going to change
yeah well that’s so interesting appointing a senior lady there and that that things really started to change
um Alice yourself what more do you think can be done to get women at leadership levels
um I would say that you know avenard has a lot of programs like the reciprocal mentoring program and other initiatives
to kind of encourage women to to make women more visible
um I would say that the one thing that I follow the most is to actually see
someone in that position right I need more Role Models uh it’s a tricky one because that means that you have to it’s
a long journey there you can’t just pick someone and say hey jump into this role um I’m based in Sweden in Stockholm and
here in the nordics avanot has several female leaders and I’m really inspired
by the fact that I see them handle you know young kids positions that require a lot from them
um they manage the discussions that normally you know when I’ve been at
previous companies a lot of women just haven’t been included in them and the tone might be a bit harsh sometimes and
you know to just see it modeled uh allows for younger women like me to dare
to take the steps to kind of join the join join them yes yes
completely and I’d love to ask you both a little bit uh to share a little bit more about your career obviously you
know you shared a lot there about um your leadership uh uh skills already but
you both have super interesting roots in both very different routes into the
industry um so I’d love to know why did you gravitate towards a career in tech and
and what do you like about it because Anna you you came in from a very obviously you shared your story and why
you wanted to come into Tech but Alice you you went a completely different route and went through a completely different industry so
um Anna shall we start with you why did you gravitate towards that that career in Tech
yeah in I found the career in Tech always very
exciting because uh um really there has been such a progress in in the past 20
years in the way technology can impact every
business every organizations and I found that particularly fascinating
um so you know learning every day how to make things better and how really to
create an impact I is is so fulfilling and probably also
as a woman I’ve seen probably more opportunities in this in this industry
because there was less Legacy more opportunities for female
um a lot of you know good growth in every organization that also allowed me
to grow you know in terms of responsibilities and it has been a really fulfilling for
me to it’s still now every day I’m amazing by you know the the progress for
example just to mention the opportunities now with open AI you know
the new way ways of working you know in a kind of augmented way it’s so
fascinating yeah which is which is great to hear and something that as I mentioned before
lots of us in the tech industry know um how exciting it can be and it’s always that stereotype that it’s not
going to be fun and you know girls in particular they don’t want him to go to go into technology as a career and it’s
so frustrating for those that work in it to hear that because we know obviously how exciting it can be and the benefits
of working in it and Alice yourself you won’t via the car industry what what then gravitated you towards 10. so I
used to work at Mercedes-Benz I started my career there and I loved it and loads
of things that I learned from it and all of that but I also felt that I was kind of just in it but not passionate about
it um Tech was always an interesting area
to me because you know it’s ever changing constantly evolving and I mean if you just look
back five years ago the reality that we live in today was kind of Unthinkable and all of that is due to Tech right but
I just thought that Tech was for people that can code and when I discovered that
there are other avenues in the tech so I personally work in business operations slash sales operations so in my
day-to-day I don’t code but I do support in the sales processes I provide
different types of analysis to uh senior leadership and so on and
I still kind of get to be a part of the you know I create an impact and I’m part
of the uh Journey that we’re all in within Tech but I’m honoring my
strengths and in at this time it’s not coding and I
um love the fact that I’m able to do that I’m able to be part of it but in my own way
yes well we’ve had a few conversations on here about you don’t have to code to
get into Tech yeah and um it’s something you hear constantly isn’t it you have to have a computer science degree and yeah
that’s it um so it’s great to hear you know another person say exactly the same
thing you don’t have to be technically minded um if you don’t want to and there are
lots of lots of roles um especially in within the good companies they seem to
um realize what people are good at and you know make sure that you can move around and try new things within a tech
company um without having to take you know technical qualifications um that I couldn’t do um it’s not
something that I would want to do either um why should more women see it as a
viable career do you think obviously we talked about a lot of the benefits there um what what do you think Anna
because it’s a fantastic opportunity for everyone to have greater careers I mean
these industries keeps growing every year and expanding and every
organization in the world is becoming a technology organization and you know
this is really a revolution and it’s so important that every individual is part
of it we don’t want to have you know a word where what makes a difference
developing software developing Solutions is dominated by mail a danger of that
risk of that is that could you know biases could kick in and we want to you
know have the full diversity really engaged in transforming together the
world through the power of Technology yes and when you have those meltings and
and as we said earlier not having that diversity fault it tends to be when a product goes out and there’s some
embarrassing our mistake where nobody’s you know noticed something really terrible about that product and then it
goes out and then there’s the backlash and you just think why didn’t you just have more diversity on that team
somebody would have picked up online you’re shooting yourself in the foot by
not thinking more about diversity and Alice yourself why do you think women
should see a survival career um like Hannah said it’s it’s the future
you you’re being part of creating the future what what can be more exciting than that I mean it’s intellectually
challenging if you like you know I enjoy being challenged and I enjoy
um being able to create something that
hasn’t been done before I mean we we don’t know what the world is going to look like in 10 years and
you you’re able to be part of it um I would say to any woman who’s
questioning it I would say look at the different options out there because you have so many different avenues that you
can go through I mean if it’s HR coding sales operations you name it there’s so
many options give it a go see where it leads you I promise you you probably won’t regret it
yes and it is so interesting to hear you say about obviously how fast-paced
technology is it’s never boring um and I remember somebody told me years ago that working in certain industries
like technology it’s like working in the funeral business the bottom will never fall out of it you will you will always
have somewhere to go and and and something to do and something will be new and you know a lot of the jobs that
the girls at school are training for now um you know they won’t actually exist by the time they get in they’ll be learning
something entirely new um by the time there’s the time they’re already getting to work
um with employers changing the way that they work um how is technology enabling this do
you think we’ve spoke spoken a little bit about you know the pandemic and the way that the world of workers has
changed um Anna should we start with you um flexibility has become imperative and
using tools and solutions that support collaboration in a seamless way from any
place any device it is really is really important and is
possible for example I’m giving you my my example in the morning I have my
first meeting while I am I am suckling and that’s possible and uh or when I
work in my dog and then as soon as I get home or I get to the office I just
switch to my laptop without any disruption heavy any uh an interruption
to to my meetings now that is possible we have all the environments that
support that yeah and in terms of mental health that has just improves so many people’s lives I think
we were just all on that treadmill um of life and then all of a sudden it
was stopped and we could we could reset um Alice but what do you think Harry’s technology uh enabling
um you know the changes in the way that we work um I think that you know we’re just at
the beginning of it and it’s exciting to see so what we’ve seen recently has been
um just like Anna said you can kind of control your day you know where they just you just couldn’t before uh which
has enabled me for instance to kind of dive into my interests I love dancing I love yoga
um I’m able to kind of live a life where I feel me more fulfilled and if I’m more
fulfilled I’m able to produce more at work I’m able to um just you know we’re on this plan for
such a short time and to be able to control your time is everything yeah I think companies understand that as well
good companies understand that I think good managers understand that and good leaders because if an employee is happy
then you get more out of them they just they do things because they’re just they
just feel more um more relaxed and and you know that they can especially parents we get a lot
of parents on here and they can you know if one of the the children is sick it doesn’t become a massive thing where
they’re thinking now I have to you know completely rearrange my day it’s just changed life for people
um particularly parents uh obviously for the better um ladies we’re nearly out of time and I’ve got one more question to ask you
about technology and uh and and how it empowers employees and how is avanard
using technology to change things for its employees uh Anna should we start with you yeah I think
really as I mentioned uh we we use really technology to give
anyone the opportunity to work from everywhere and uh give the maximum
flexibility in terms of time and this is possible thanks to powerful
collaboration tools The Preserve data consistency and you know allow multiple
people to work together on a project on documents and data without problems
um also is so important you know having access to the right data uh you know
that are key for every job and thanks to power bi we have very strong dashboards
that you know show us everything about specific areas but also the opportunity
or customizing customizing them you know in a way that is uh easy and possible
for each one and really now we can’t wait to see what will be possible once
open AI Church BT will be integrated with with our tools with being with
office applications and not to mention the acceleration that that those tools
will bring for our software development you know it’s such an amazing continuous
progress and our commitment as avanad is really to be in the front of this to
keep learning improving to provide the best best environment possible for our
employees to have you know the right balance optimizing their work accelerating their work you know to to
have enough time to you know to enjoy their life
we’re gonna need you back on the podcast then for an update uh further down the line by the sounds of it
um Alice yourself um um but you know Harry’s avanade using Tech to change things do you think for
its employees we didn’t go into details that we have flexible Work Week where you’re able to sort of let’s say if you
have a team in India and you want to work a few extra hours early in the day so that you can take a few hours off on
a Friday that’s encouraged by the company and we’ve also got a within that
a program where you’re allowed to work within uh specific countries so you can kind of apply for that and you’re able
to relocate if that’s something that you want to experience um
several different uh yeah because you relocated is that
did you relocate as part of a webinar does that is that what happened so I’m not part of avenard um
part of Mercedes-Benz I really like it with them but here at night I’ve always been in Stockholm yeah but you find that
there’s it doesn’t really matter where you work that you know the technology at avenard just enables you to to work
actually in the city that you chose to stay in exactly it allows you to kind of
be more flexible and you’re able to you know I mean part of my team we have one
girl who sits in Spain and you know that’s not an issue at all yeah so yeah
and again it just brings that diversity of ideas that we’ve spoken about um uh already on here that you know
people from all different locations and different different thoughts um and you’re absolutely right it’s lovely to have a team that are all over
the place that have um different ideas and cultures and backgrounds and
um uh I think the pandemic has really helped with that um as well to open uh our doors to to
more more people that we probably wouldn’t have had as much contact with um obviously for lots of companies and
Ladies we are out of time because it is flown by and uh thank you so much both of you it’s been an absolute pleasure to
have you on here for a chat today thank you thank you so much thank you
and for everybody listening as always thank you for joining us and we hope to see you again next time
