Employee groups are a great way to support DE&I initiatives. They can be viewed as a safe space for employees to share their experiences and feel supported by peers and mentors.
The Lego Group has a range of internal groups on offer for its workforce, including a Women’s Employee Advocacy Group that aims to support the company’s females by enabling them to flourish.
In this episode, we sit down with Ann-Marie Brennand, Executive PA, Marketing & Channels Technology at the LEGO Group. In August 2022 Ann-Marie became Co-Chair of the LEGO Group’s internal Women’s Employee Advocacy Group. Here she shares the group’s aims and why it was formed.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
hello everyone and thank you for tuning in again I am Katie batesman the content director at chican code and today we’re
discussing the power of workplace Unity through employee groups now in August
2022 the incredible Anne-Marie Brennan executive assistant marketing and
channels technology at the Lego group became co-chair of the Lego group’s internal women’s employee advocacy group
and today I’m lucky enough to have a with me because she’s going to share their aims and why the group was formed
welcome Anne-Marie thank you so much for joining us hi thank you for having me and we kick off today’s conversation
with a little bit of a background about yourself please um a kind of you know where did you get
started in in your career okay um I’ve definitely had a squiggly career
and my career is definitely more for Jungle Gym than a straight um ladder so and this is I think my
third career change that I’ve had oh wow um so yeah I’m a big advocate of
squiggly careers because it’s it I think I’ve had a great time but um yeah I started my career in marketing and branding actually and I did about seven
years working in various organizations in marketing and branding and then I switched at a short stint in Recruitment
and then project management and then I fell into being a PA completely by
accident I started just doing a bit of temping work you know I didn’t intend for it to be a career it was just
something to tied me over for a little while and I actually found that I loved it and that I was really good at it so
it wasn’t ever any anything that was planned but um yeah it kind of just sort
of fell into place and clicked and maybe fate had a hand in that I’m not sure
um but my first PA role was at Bacardi and then I moved to a company called PRS music where I supported the chief people
officer and I was also responsible for running the well-being program there and I was there for about four and a half
years and then it just became time to move on after a little while
um I feel quite scared of ever becoming institutionalized in one company so I
always feel like three to five years feels like a good time to kind of um move on and I saw the role advertised at
the LEGO Group the role I’m currently in that and it was actually a bit funny because I was kind of half thinking of
like yeah maybe times to move on or during like covered pandemic times and wasn’t sure if I should move or stick
with where I was and I got a pop-up on LinkedIn that said Legos recruiting for an infectious assistant and I wasn’t
following Lego I hadn’t it wasn’t something that should be in my research terms but it popped up as an alert on my
phone and I was like oh and I read it and I was like this job has got my name written all over it I was like this has
been written for me so I feel like there was a little bit of State there and um
when I went to apply for it there was the ATS the applicant tracking system to
apply wasn’t working it wouldn’t let me accept my application I thought oh maybe it’s because I’m applying on my old work
laptop and maybe my work laptop is blocking it and I tried then to do it on my phone
after I sit on my husband’s laptop and I was like I can’t quite get through I keep getting the same error message and
I was like this isn’t me this must be something to do with the back end there you go but I was like I really really
want this job um and the job description did mention who the role was supporting
so I found my now people leader Niall on LinkedIn and I sent him a bit of a
cheeky message and I was like I’ve seen this role advertised I’m having problems applying I think I’d be brilliant at
this job and you should hire me and here’s my CV oh amazing and I bet that you instantly stuck in his head oh sure
I’ll tell you I haven’t actually asked him about that since I’ve got the job I should maybe have a conversation with him about it but it seemed to work and
then he then sent me an email address and put me in touch with the right recruitment person
um but I do think there was a little bit of an element off like kind of going for what I wanted and I was like I really
want really wants this job I think it’s got my name all over it I can do this
um and yeah so that’s how I’ve how I ended up here at the LEGO Group yeah I’ve been here for almost two years now
and is it as magical as we think it’s all going to be at the LEGO Group as they they say it is uh yes absolutely I
think it is um it’s quite funny of and then I tell people that I work for the LEGO Group everyone’s like oh my god wow do you
like play with Lego all day and uh no I don’t play with you all day we are encouraged to play there is lots of Lego
sets so don’t ruin it we think you’re just playing not in my role anyway and I mean there
are lots of Lego sets around in in our hubs for which we call Community bills for people to kind of take part in and
share in the building um but yeah I don’t play with it like as often as I as I as I should maybe
um it’s there it’s available now it’s available yeah but and I think this is
by far my favorite profession that I’ve had between my three career switches
yeah um and shamelessly gonna plug their eapa profession because unfortunately I
think there is quite a misconception about our roles and the General Media and you know the likes of Mad Men And
The Devil Wears Prada has not been kind to our role and were often perceived as
just the assistant but in fact we do so much more and our roles are hugely
Dynamic and play a huge part in our leadership team and get to contribute to projects that are going across on right
across our organization and yeah and you get to see everything as well I always always found that with um EAS and pas’s
you have so much responsibility um for for what you do and you have to
be so organized yeah so if something goes wrong or someone’s in the wrong place you know it’s it’s it’s all down
to use and and did you know that when you saw the job and you thought you know I’m super organized I can do that is
that kind of one of your qualities would you say uh yes it is definitely at work but I think I go into organization
overdrive at work that when I’m in my private life I don’t have a clue what’s going on occupational hazard
um but yeah I think something that really attracted me to this role in particular was that they wanted an EA
who was going to be part of the leadership team and kind of want to take on extra projects and responsibilities which is something that I really wanted
to do um striping which also gives me the flexibility to be care of our
women’s eag as well yes yes and that’s what we’re going to talk about um a little bit today
um because uh it was exciting news when it was launched um so can you tell us a little bit about
that you know why why was the women’s employee advocacy group started yeah
um the group has actually started before I joined um and I think it was actually our U.S
colleagues based in Connecticut that started uh this idea of having employee
advocacy groups and they’ve got a very much local within their kind of U.S and
Connecticut offices and it was really successful so and I think our kind of global dni team’s like hey this is
really great we should have something like this globally for the whole organization and hence our Global groups
were formed but we still actually have the U.S local groups as well because they had kind of set up and it was
working really well so I’m co-chair of the global women’s advocacy group
um and we meet regularly and with the US groups we kind of connect quite a lot and some of the work that they are doing
and that we’re doing we very much share and work in this energy so diversity inclusion is a really big area within
the LEGO Group and we’ve got several employee advocacy groups there’s a people of color and lgbtq plus and age
and accessibility and then our women’s one and plus there’s lots of different local Global diversity councils and task
force like so many sometimes it’s a little bit difficult to keep track of who’s doing what I mean very recently
just started a digital diversity task force um so it’s only just form but I’m sure
there’s going to be some really cool stuff that’s going to come out of that as well yeah amazing and so this group
was started um before you joined Lego so perhaps how did you become co-chair of the group does somebody what you forward
did you hear about it did you put yourself forward and email somebody and say I think I should do this uh yeah the
latter really um so I was a member of the group before I became a co-chair so after I joined
the LEGO Group I saw that this was there and it’s available and it was something
that I wanted to be part of so I joined as a member and then there was a bit of fluctuation of
like code the existing coaches either left the organization for other opportunities or stepped back and did
different things so the opportunity to be a co-chair came about there was
already one new co-chair so my partner is M A lady called he’s based in India
and she stepped up to be coaching and there’s one other vacant position and I
really deliberated if this was something I should do or not and I was like oh I don’t know and probably a little bit of
imposter syndrome in there as well of like can I do this should I do this I’m not sure
um but the group had previously had lots of like really good discussions and really
good ideas but it never went anywhere and I could see that there was an opportunity to take some of these ideas
and start pushing them into action and actually start making stuff happen and I
know that that’s something I’m good at in my day job as an EA of making stuff happen things have to happen in your
position definitely yes team will be like what happens yeah so I could see
that I had a strums that I could bring to this group and this organization
um so yeah I put myself forward then to become a coacher and I have been now
since August 2022 I think and yeah it’s been really great and I think I should
also mention everyone else who’s a member of the group are all volunteers as well everyone like it’s not a paid
full position it’s like an extra and above added extracurricular so to speak
um position that everyone has come into and it there is a decent amount of work
involved in being the co-chair but I also think when it’s something that you feel passionate about
it often doesn’t feel like hard work if it’s something that you’re passionate about and you love yes and
something that is really aligned with your role and as you said your passions um if you’re at the right company as
well and it kind of just makes it feel part of your part of the culture I suppose it’s not it doesn’t sound like
it’s a bolt-on it just sounds like it become natural you know a natural part of your role yeah I think it it also
very much aligns with my values and things that I’m interested in outside of work of you know reading books by female
authors and watching you know films or programs that are kind of you know supporting and empowering women is kind
of something I very much aligned to and kind of believe in so I think it very much aligns with like my own personal
values but yeah you’re right as well about I think part of the Lego culture that it’s not it doesn’t feel like an
added bolt on it feels like all of our diversity inclusion programs
feels like it’s just the way we do business it’s not like a oh we’ve got to do this extra thing it’s like yeah this
this is normal for us this is what we do yeah and had us to to
um progress and move forward with what you’ve already done a little bit about the group’s aims uh
our the purpose of our group is to support women of the LEGO Group to flourish at work and we set this at the
end of 2022 and it seems to be something that fits really well and we really like
this idea of flourishing and thriving at work and it’s not just about purely
existing or surviving or just getting through the day but actually how do we
grow and feel good at work with something that we really wanted to have
within our group and has kind of helped set some of the directions for the activities we’re looking at as well
Yes actually I just love the fact that you just said um it’s not just surviving at work and I think a lot of us feel
that way maybe in the pandemic as well a lot of us started to realize that you
know there’s a little bit more and than just kind of going to work and doing your day job and surviving
um and I think employees now they they look around a lot more don’t they look
for those companies where they’re going to feel like they’re getting um you know something really good out of
their day and you know even at the end of the year that they can look back and think this is what I did and and how I
moved forward and I think employees are just a lot more picky nowadays aren’t they they actually the way that you
phrased it was lovely you know about them not just surviving but flourishing I think that’s something that that we’re
all looking for yeah and I I mean we all spend so much time at work like we probably spend more time talking to our
work colleagues than we do our friends our families and our loved ones and yeah personally I think it’s so important to
be in a place where you know you you do feel like that you can Thrive and you can flourish like I have like a
reflection journal for the end of every week of you know things I’ve done things I’ve learned things I’ve accomplished
things I want to develop for the following week and I think having that is a real benefit as well yeah that’s a
good idea because you absolutely you miss all of the things that you’ve done or you just don’t realize
um you know perhaps how much you move forward that week and the progress you made and to make a journal is is a great
idea yeah and then when you get to your end of year review and it’s like what did you do in your life I can’t remember
I was like oh actually I can I’ve got a whole journal for everything for all it’s all there all the things that you
know I did that were great and the things I need to improve on I’ve I’ve got it yeah brilliant idea and even when
you move jobs it’s kind of you you’ve got that to help you you know instead of
just writing a CV a basic CV you’ve got all of those extra things that that you’ve remembered remember to write down
each week yeah absolutely it’s great advice uh how often do you meet as a group
um so we have two types of meetings so we have a bi-weekly meeting which has become quite functional and it’s largely
activity driven it’s discussing the things that we’re working on and giving updates on what we’re doing so when we
are planning International women’s day talking about all the activity uh newsletter we want to send out we’ve
just created a new internal SharePoint site so our bi-weekly meetings have
become that kind of activity driven like let’s get stuff done type of meetings yeah um which are great because we are
moving forward and stuff is starting to happen within our group but we then found that because of that we were
losing a bit of a community feel and we still wanted our group to be a place
where women can come and just have open conversations about any issues to do
with gender whatever it may be so we’ve this year we’ve introduced a community Circle
meeting we’re calling it and the chair of this rotates throughout the group and
the purpose of this meeting is to just have a space to come together and talk about anything that has come up to do
with women and gender and it’s not recorded There’s No Agenda there’s no
notes taken and it could be anything it could be something that’s happened at work something that’s happened in the
news something that you’ve seen on Tick Tock a book that you’ve read just anything that you’re like oh hey I saw
this thing and I thought this was interesting or it triggered me or I just want to share this with the group and
sometimes it’s really positive things of like I just saw this like amazing video and I found it really empowering
um and they happen monthly and those meetings have been the best
the best there has not been one that I haven’t come away feeling super energized and super empowered and
they’re just a really really lovely time for a group of women from all across the
organization often women that I will never work with in my day-to-day life and my day-to-day job but we just have
like a really honest conversation and we very much feel that it is a circle of trust and anything that say is said in
this meeting stays Within These virtual walls and doesn’t go anywhere else and
yeah they’ve been really really lovely I I you know what they’re so good to hear because I was going to ask you a
little bit about how the group enables women um at Lego to be heard but actually you just summed it up there it’s just that
it sounds like you know that Circle of trust and and knowing that actually you you you can come to us and say what you
want you’ll be heard and something will be done but actually you won’t get in trouble for having said something within
that group or it sounds like Lego really um make an effort to ensure that their
women are heard yeah and I think just having a space that
we can kind of have those honest conversations with each other and it’s not just you know whilst our group is is
currently we’re doing good work to drive action and you know you know put activities on and whatnot for The Wider
company we also want a space where it’s safe for us to kind of have conversations related to gender and
women and you know all these different things that are going on not just at Lego but like in the outside world
outside of work that kind of may impact us as well yeah and and so
I curiosity when women want to get involved in do they do they they contact you can I come
along to this group that’s they they don’t have to come every month they can kind of dip in yeah I mean it’s it’s
pretty like um we have some members that are more active than others and some people you
kind of like drop in and drop out but yeah it’s completely open to anyone in the company who wants to get involved
men as well um but yeah people can we’ve got a SharePoint site and a team site and you
can just join that yourselves I’ll add you to the meeting invites and yeah people can kind of drop in and drop out
and I think those members who are more active tend to get more and come regularly they tend to be the ones that
are also more active in driving various activities and projects forward as well
but we don’t discriminate if people don’t have the time capacity to you know get involved with organizing
International women’s day for example which you know takes a lot of time
um you know that doesn’t mean you can’t be part of our group you can still Tom 2 meetings that works for you when you can
yeah and you mentioned um you know an aim of trying to to move things forward and and actually put put things uh into
action how are you taking the group’s insights and translating them into action throughout Lego you said you’re
making a movement now yeah so um you’ll be we’re just starting this at
the minute so in January of 2023 we launched a survey asking women of the LEGO Group what do you want us to focus
on and once we set our purpose we were like right we’ve got our purpose what should we do with it next and we came up
with some ideas but we’re like oh we don’t really know if this is actually right or not so we
created quite a simple Microsoft form survey we put it out there in the world
we put on the internet on Yammer we’ve got all of our members of the group to share it in their local teams and just
saying hey women of the LEGO Group what do you want us to focus on and I’m so glad we did this because we had come up
with some ideas that we thought we should focus on and whilst we want a million miles off there were some things
that actually we did change based on the results we got in um so for example one of the things that
we’d had in our four pillars was supporting women’s health we were like we should do more with
supporting women’s health and but actually in the survey that wasn’t one of the top things that they wanted us to
focus on which is quite interesting and the things that came up top was Career Development and opportunities and women
in leadership um so that’s kind of where we’re now focusing our activity and I should also
mention as a side note Women’s Health hasn’t been forgotten yeah uh the LEGO
Group has just launched last week I think it is hot of the press um last week they’ve launched a
menopause program which we’re trialing in the UK and then it’s going to roll out to other countries and there’s also
a plan to kind of Sanitary products in all bathrooms in stores and factories and offices everywhere so yeah Women’s
Health was not forgotten but we kind of it was a really good learning to be like actually this is important but it’s not
something that people want us to focus on so whilst we are a supporter of those
activities we’re not driving it and interestingly something else that came out from the survey which is really
interesting because we asked people how do you want us to distill this information to you and kind of share
knowledge and um information and by far the most popular option was in-person events and
networking which is I mean we’re a global organization it’s a lot easier to
create one online event than having lots of different in-person networking
opportunities so it’s quite interesting that this kind of came out very strongly as what people wanted and people want
that back again because I think it’s something that we all felt had disappeared and everyone had a small you
know the the convenience of having an online event but we hear that a lot yeah well in person yeah I mean I think there
is something there is Magic that happens in person that is very difficult to replicate online and even with the
amazing technology you’re putting in people into breakout room rooms and networking and whatnot it’s different in person when you can
look someone in the eye and ask them questions and have a conversation than it is online
um so yeah it’s really interesting that that came out so strongly um so we do have a plan which we are in the
very early stages now of um putting together to kind of make this happen so we’ve come up with seven sub topics that
address Career Development opportunities and women in leadership and then us as a
group we are creating a workshop for each one and the idea is that it will
come with ready ready-made workshop with loads of facilitator notes Etc and then
our members will then invite people within each of their local hubs to then run it locally so the idea is that it
will happen globally not necessarily all at the same time but the one Workshop we will hopefully then roll out and it will
happen in each of our locations in person and then wow T and K can
networking afterwards so you know the idea of kind of coming together have a workshop learn something and then have a
conversation together and talk to each other and hopefully they’re going to be very interactive and not just you know
the facilitator talking at someone but kind of trying to answer those two needs
of career development and opportunities women of leadership with an opportunity
for face-to-face and networking events at the same time so that’s our plan we are very very early and we’re just kind
of we’ve almost finished the first workshop and Helen quite have we haven’t launched
it yet so um asked me in a year’s time how it’s all going I’m sure we’ll have lots of things to learn along the way
and see how it goes but that’s where we’re going with it yeah that’s quite a plan of action to to really move forward
and make sure that the ladies they they meet and they get something from it somebody said to me on one of our early
podcasts um that a women’s group is is more than just a slack Channel
um and it is and obviously it’s not just saying you know we added an extra Channel One teams or maybe and you can
drop anything in there that might be of use to you um you know it’s actually listening and
launching the workshops that people would ask for and prioritizing um you know what they would like to
focus on and as you said actually you know moving forward I’ll just picking up
on something you just you just said also about like you know being more than just a slack Channel I mean one of the
greatest benefits by far that I’ve had from being part of green before I became co-chair is actually because there are
women from across the entire company of meeting and talking to women from
different parts and then some of them who were based in the London Hub you know you bump into and you say oh hey how are you and you might you know have
lunch with them one day but actually had I not been part of this group the people that I would know in the
company would probably be a lot smaller and a lot more limited to actually just having the opportunity to meet other
people is incredible like and just networking naturally without putting on
these events actually just by being part of this group and having conversations you meet people and network as well and
that is a huge benefit yeah and and on a regular basis as well whereas if you
have like one annual uh you know company event and you kind of forced to be in
the same room as everybody and you don’t actually you know really see them throughout the year it all can that’s
not really networking is it so forced um to kind of stand and talk to somebody at a Christmas party that you don’t talk
to all year um whereas this is you know you can actually build relationships and other
ladies at all levels involved in the groups uh in the group in their activities it’s not just senior women
because as you said it’s right across the company but also meeting women at all different levels is
really you know would help as well 100 and we do not discriminate on level
anybody within the organization can join the group and this is something that was really important to us actually when we
were organizing our International women’s day event this year and we had both women from our you know VPS and
executive leadership team but also women who were kind of within the early stages of their career and talking about that
because I think if you only have women from a very senior point of view and you’re early in your career then you’re
like wow you’re like you know 10 steps ahead of me in my career and like I can’t even Phantom how I get there or
what what that looks like so or if it’s something I’d even want to do at that point in mind yeah because I’m nowhere
near it so exactly so we kind of made a very conscious decision that we wanted
women from different careers and we had like women who all had also had kind of very like mixed careers and moved to
different places as well so yeah we do not discriminate on areas of the business or level in the business like
everybody is welcome fabulous and you mentioned men a little bit as well when you said everybody
everybody’s welcome I take it men are welcome as well and you would like male allies as part of the group eventually
yes we have a few male members within our group one of them is more active
than others um but we see this as really positive and we are very inclusive of men joining
our group uh we change doesn’t happen on our own and this is not about women
versus men or pushing men down so that women can rise this is like absolutely not what we believe and we want men to
be our allies and and again we demonstrated this in our International women’s day panel and we invited men to
be part of our panel discussion as well and talk about being an ally and some of
the differences that they saw in their career versus what women have experienced in their careers and this
works really well I think having some men on our panel conversations actually encouraged more men to join and watch
and listen to the panel discussion as well that it wasn’t like oh this is just a women’s thing
um because feminism is for everybody right exactly I I can’t stand these
events when uh women are it’s like the the women’s panel will happen and
they’ll disappear off of the show floor and they’ll go into a little room on their own and it’s just a room full of
women and I I can’t stand this it’s kind of you know we need everybody involved in in the conversation and it’s not just
uh you know ladies sitting together on a panel and discussing what needs to be done and so yeah it’s great that there
are men involved already in that will encourage more to yeah each of the different employee advocacy
groups within Lego has a senior elt sponsor so the sponsor group is a man um
yes but Anderson he’s the group’s Chief Financial Officer and actually having a male sponsor has for a women’s group
group has in no way hindered it and he’s been an incredible sponsor and is like
really really championing everything we do and he’s been really open and candid
with us and he said that he’s got some young daughters and he’s watching them start to think about careers and start
to enter the world of work and how they are navigating that and how that’s getting different
um so it’s been really motivating for him seeing his daughters and then supporting our group so yeah he’s been
brilliant so yes I would very much welcome some more men to join some of
our groups and drive some of our activity and raise awareness yes definitely and actually that’s that’s a
a good piece of advice there about having you know a sponsor for each group because I was gonna
um ask you you know for our listeners who are considering starting such a group within their own company do you
have any advice for them to get started I suppose one good one you just come out with there though was find yourself some
senior sponsors within the company that’s really helped yeah definitely definitely have a have a senior sponsor
um someone who wants to do it as well like it can’t be someone who’s kind of been forced in into that kind of
position think about really think about the things that you want to focus on and the areas that you can drive change or
what it is that you want to get out of the group because there is so many things that we could do but personally I
think it’s better to focus on doing less and do it really well then try to do lots of things and also if you’re set up
in a similar way to us where you know we’re a voluntary group and people have come together and it’s above and beyond
our usual very busy day jobs having a focus on the things you want to drive
forward really helps and there are certain things then that you have to say no to me say actually that’s not aligned with what we’re doing right now yes it’s
important but we can’t do that um and I also think delegate delegate delegate delegate and set up roles and
responsibilities within your group this is really really key I think gidika and I have learned this firsthand that
actually we can’t do everything as the co-chairs of the group we can’t be the co-chairs and drive all the activity
forward so we’ve now got someone who is our Treasurer and looks after our budget and all of that side of things and then
we’ve got two people who are are kind of marketing and Communications and to drive the comms of the group forward and
this is really helped and if you have any kind of you know upcoming activities that’s happening make sure it’s not just
the co-chairs that are responsible for driving that forward but actually you’ve got other people who are members of the group and can actually take action and
drive things forward as well so it’s a shared responsibility yes which means that
as a company you actually move forward and get things done because you’re breaking it down into bite-sized chunks
to um that as you said you’ve delegated to other people because it must be incredibly daunting to think especially
if you’re part of a big company there’s something as big as the LEGO Group you’re thinking you know I kind of want
to start a group but this is going to be a lot of work for myself and a co-chair for instance
um so she said it’s as long as you you know it’s not just on you and you have lots of other people involved in that
and to really come up with a structure and and by the sounds of it you know
it’s really paying off and you’re really starting to move forward on on what you want to achieve and I think also I
mentioned that we have Jesper as our elt sponsor I think that’s a great thing to have like have a senior sponsor
um but somebody who really wants to do it I think it doesn’t work if you’ve got someone who’s like oh well I guess I
have to be a sponsor of a dni group because you know it’s a thing to do but
have someone who really wants to do it and we’re very lucky that we’ve got yes but because I think if it’s something
that they want to do it becomes very easy and natural for them to be great cheerleaders for our initiative yes
definitely instead of being Crow barred in and thinking it’s supposed to turn up for this every now and then um and yeah
it doesn’t it doesn’t help and as you said just mentioning it as well across the business and and there’s something
that they they sponsor um would would get that word out as well wouldn’t it to other people amongst the
business that might be you know of use to come on board and help what your group um are doing yeah for sure
fabulous so thank you so much Emery um we are out of time and it’s blown by
because it has been an absolute pleasure to chat with you today and so thank you so much for sharing what what the LEGO
Group are doing um and we’d love to have you back actually for another um update and you
can let us know how you got on with the workshops um and uh how Lego are continuing to
move forward in that area so thank you yeah absolutely I will keep you updated on how it all goes and thank you very
much for having me it’s been lovely talking to you thank you and for everybody listening as always thank you for joining us and we hope to see you
again next time
