The importance of diversity for digital transformation

Kayleigh Bateman: 0:01
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Batesman, the content director at Shee Kahn Code, and today we are discussing the importance of diversity for digital transformation. Digital transformation has helped level the playing field, so to speak. Parents can now apply for more flexible or remote roles, and opportunities have been opened up to people who would have never previously been able to reach them. But in order for digital transformation to succeed, there is a need for a diverse range of thoughts. Luckily, today I’m joined by the wonderful Mia Ellis, global head of diversity, equity and inclusion at Mendex, who is here to delve into the importance of diversity for digital transformation. Welcome, mia. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Mia Ellis: 0:42
Hi, Kaylee, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Kayleigh Bateman: 0:45
Thank you thank you for taking the time out of your Friday to come and have a chat with us. Can we kick a bit of background?

Mia Ellis: 0:53
about your self place? Sure, so I have been in the area of DEI for the last almost 14 years and I’ve worked across several industries. So I started out in higher education and worked in different universities here in the States, and then I worked in healthcare, I’ve worked in retail and now I’ve landed in tech. So, as you can imagine, multiple different industries are trying to use more of an inclusive lens as they’re developing their strategies and products, recruiting talent into their organization. So that’s essentially what I do and I am, as I mentioned, located here in the US. I live in sunny, sometimes Pittsburgh, pennsylvania and, yeah, I love the work that I do and I am definitely a research minded, approached practitioner, I would say and how I go about implementing different strategies. So it’s definitely cultural awareness and human behavior combined with organization development and change management Amazing.

Kayleigh Bateman: 2:03
And I do never know. I never know what people are going to say on this podcast, but I love the fact that you came through so many different sectors to get to tech as well, because some ladies I speak on here they took a direct route. They did computer science, came straight into the tech industry. That’s fantastic, but sometimes most of the time on here I hear that ladies come from one industry into you know a completely different industry, through to the tech sector. So you went from higher education, care, retail, tech. Did you take something from all of those, I suppose, and that kind of led you into the tech industry. Did you bring together all those different skills that kind of ultimately ended up in working in?

Mia Ellis: 2:45
the tech sector I did. I did, I feel as if working with adults primarily so in higher education I was working with adults who had more barriers than most to higher ed, and so I was kind of drawn into the DEI realm that way and realize that doing the so faculty members and people who are working within you know organizations really there had to be a bridge between people who are looking to come into that environment and people who are already in that environment, and that I think I’ve taken that to every single industry is really being a bridge between the community and talent as well and being an advocate for them, and then also in coaching and guiding leaders and organizations to understand the talent that they’re bringing into the organization and how to help them thrive. So I’ve been able to pick up all of these things.

Mia Ellis: 3:44
I think, looking at things from a retail perspective or from a health perspective or from higher education, there’s inequities in all of these different industries. So I think that it’s really broadened my scope and I think it’s really helped from working on the corporate end, being able to give them some insight from the higher education perspective. You know, in saying these are some things that you should keep in mind when you’re looking at resumes from certain institutions and things like that, and how you can keep an open mind and removing bias through these types of processes. So yes, as I say, overall summary, yes, I think it’s really helped me to bring a very well rounded into the industry of DEI.

Kayleigh Bateman: 4:30
Yes, definitely, and we love that on this podcast the range of roles that are available in technology and just all the different routes that people take to get in. And it is always a misconception you have to have a computer science degree and come straight into tech, and that’s the only thing you can do in tech is to be very technical and that’s it. And there are just a range of roles obviously in the sector, which is why we love to have a range of different guests on here, including yourself, as to just to showcase all the different jobs. Fantastic, and today we’re going to be talking a little bit about digital transformation. Can we kick off? Can you give a brief overview of what digital transformation is?

Mia Ellis: 5:11
Yes, absolutely so.

Mia Ellis: 5:12
I think when most people hear the term digital transformation, their mind tends to think to the technology side, of course and I like to say that I am the human side of digital transformation, and so culture plays a very, very critical part in a successful digital transformation.

Mia Ellis: 5:30
And when organizations are able to recognize that there are certain complex problems that we are facing now as organizations in the digital era, they can all be solved by technology you need human ingenuity and so they’re taking more proactive steps to create this culture within their organization that allows digital transformation to thrive. So when organizations are taking those steps, are taking a look at the attributes of digitally mature organizations, they’re prioritizing diversity and building processes and behavior expectations that allow for innovation and diversity of thought. That is where I think most organizations who have been successful in digital transformation have prioritized. So it’s not just the technology piece, but also how they’re preparing their leaders. Are they fostering an environment where people feel comfortable to share their ideas and to get creative, and do you have the diverse makeup within your employee set and your teams to help that happen?

Kayleigh Bateman: 6:39
Yes, I love that. I love that you described your job as the human side of digital transformation, because it’s you’re right, it’s so important. As we said right at the start of this as well, there are so many jobs out there that are not the technical side, and in tech, everybody jumps, even with digital transformation, as you said, right to the technical side of things, but obviously digital transformation can’t work without the human side. As you said, creating the right culture, preparing your leaders. It’s incredibly important.

Kayleigh Bateman: 7:08
I love the way you described that as your job, though, because some people I had that tip at a networking event years ago how you describe your job is so important. Instead of walking up to somebody and just saying your job title, it’s better to describe you know actually what you do, and actually saying I’m. The human side of digital transformation is a perfect example there. You know that’s, it’s not your job title, but everybody would think, oh, I see, you know, I completely get what you do, just by the way that you described it there. How do you think the diversity ties into digital transformation?

Mia Ellis: 7:42
Yes. So I and I’ll draw on some really great research that Dr Linda Hill from the Harvard Business School had recently put out, and she talked about these, as I alluded to before, these complex issues and specifically three main ones I’ll mention here, and how diversity really plays into these. So the first one would be higher expectations from customers. So customers have much higher expectation for a unique, tailored user experience. So it’s not enough just to have a great product. Customers want to know. You know who I am and you’ve curated this experience for me, and so that requires human ingenuity. That requires understanding, especially on a global scale, how different customers think who they are, how their identity plays into it, and so diversity is needed in that regard. Right, so you, you have to have a diverse group of people to say, well, this might land a little bit different than this group or this customer base.

Mia Ellis: 8:49
And then the next would be your employees. So the talent that you’re bringing into your organization have a lot higher expectations as well. So they’re looking for more inclusive work environments, leaders who have higher levels of relational intelligence and what I call human skills and being able to cultivate psychologically safe environments, and they also want more meaningful work. They want to know that the work that they’re doing is doing something, is changing something for the better, and so, in order to anticipate the needs of the talents that you’re trying to pull from especially diverse groups of talent, it’s important to know those things and to understand that our understanding of how that shifts, based off of identities, whether it’s age, gender, race, nationality, and so diversity and understanding those aspects is very important there as well.

Mia Ellis: 9:44
And then the last would be our stakeholders. So they have very high expectations for us, as well as our organization. They want to know what are you giving back? How is what you’re building solving social problems? How are you really giving back to the communities that you operate in beyond just making money as a company? And so those are also, I would say, the three main things that are cannot be solved by technology alone. You need to have a more nuanced, human centric focus when tackling those type of complex problems, and so diversity plays a role into all of those things, in understanding people and being able to anticipate and meet those expectations.

Kayleigh Bateman: 10:28
Yes, I mean. So I wanted to ask you what the benefits of a diverse workforce. But actually the way you broke that down there, you talked about customers, employees, stakeholders all of them are equally important and having that diverse workforce I mean you mentioned there about, you know, even if a diverse workforce would say actually this might not land so well with customers, you’re going to have that embarrassing PR moment on you and there are several brands that have done it and you just think why didn’t you just have a little diversity of thought on your team and that PR accident just wouldn’t have happened?

Mia Ellis: 11:05
Yes, yes, exactly, and I would say this all the time that when you’re putting out, you know, communication or a product, the last thing you want to do, especially when you’re thinking that it’s going to meet the needs of a certain audience, is to have it land flat because you haven’t had the perspectives that were necessary in the development of it, to give you that lens and to say, hey, this might be a better approach to do this. So, yes, absolutely.

Kayleigh Bateman: 11:38
Yeah, and I mean, in terms of that, benefits that breaking that down into three, I mean diversity really affects all of them. As you said, we talked there a little bit about that PR and the customer experience and being part of a diverse team, even through to the stakeholders. I mean there are benefits around really for diversity, isn’t it? I mean it’s pretty much a no-brainer.

Mia Ellis: 12:03
Yes. So there has been countless research that exists out there that show diverse teams just outperform more homogenous teams. They just do their Mackenzie report, deloitte, gartner have all come out with recent studies on this and you just have end up with better business outcomes. You better, you have better performance because people are able to be creative and innovate and hear different perspectives to build these really great nuanced services. And then you have employees who have a higher intent to stay. They want to stay in that environment. Who wouldn’t? When they feel that they’re who they are is welcomed and included in their perspectives and ideas. So, overall diversity when you, when you really do prioritize that in your organization, it meets and checks all the boxes that you’re trying to achieve.

Kayleigh Bateman: 12:57
Yes, definitely, I mean, and so there are some thoughts that diversity is needed for digital transformation to succeed. What are your thoughts on this? I mean, we spoke a little bit there about it’s kind of a no-brainer to move forward with diversity. Is it necessary for digital transformation to be successful?

Mia Ellis: 13:15
I would agree with that sentiment, and sentiment I would. I think it would be very challenging to continue to try to drive digital transformation without placing diversity as a core component. You know not only, as we talked about, diverse perspectives are looking at problems in a more comprehensive way and you’re able to anticipate a broader range of global needs, which is important for a company to have, but you’re also able to look at your, your processes within your organization, your strategies, the communications that you put out and all of that is necessary, as well as your leadership style, how you’re training your leaders and leading diverse teams, and so I think that’s a real set that you really need to have as a leader today, especially from a global perspective. So you have some leaders that, like on my team, were distributed. You have some people in Germany, some in the Netherlands, some in the states. So really having that understanding and lens is very important to have as a leader as well.

Kayleigh Bateman: 14:24
And Stephanie, I love the fact you talked about their building it into leadership styles. It is something that we spoke about on these podcasts and quite a bit that you can’t. It has to trickle down from the top as well. It has to be built into everything that that leaders do, throughout the whole DNA of the business for it, for it to work. I completely agree. I agree with you there, and I mean it turns off. We spoke a little bit about this already, but digital transformation can help level the playing field, but how do we make sure that it’s put into place? If we agree that we think it’s necessary and it can help level that playing field, how do we put it in place?

Mia Ellis: 15:03
Yeah, so I think this is another kind of multi step approach and it starts with leadership, of course, as we talked about, and when you think about most people, when they talk about their experience at work, leaders are really driving that culture right For for their employees and their teams, and so it does start with leadership training and making sure that your leaders understand that being able to lead diverse teams it’s a skill set that they have to build and acquire, and so it’s really having them understand that collaborating with their teams is is going to look different than maybe what it did in the past. So leaders are going to have to need to have the ability to facilitate diverse discussions with people’s and perspectives and bring that all together. It’s recognizing I don’t have all the answers in the room, and I’ve selected people with diverse areas of expertise that can co create with me, rather than I have to have all the answers. I have to lead everything, and so it’s different. It’s a different approach, and so that’s something that we have to ensure that our leaders understand. The other thing is really just kind of committing to looking at our policies and how our organizations carry out certain actions, whether it’s recruitment, product development, customer care. You’re analyzing each area of these business. So my role is is, yes, it’s housed in people and culture, but there is a lens on every single area and department of the business that I coordinate and collaborate with as well, which I think is also very important.

Mia Ellis: 16:44
And I would say, the other thing, too, is making sure that there are specific funds and resources that can available to foster the environment for digital transformation to thrive. It’s very important to make sure that your employees are supported, they’re not burning themselves out, that they have an environment where they can, I like to say, fail safely. So normalize experimentation and making mistakes and knowing that they can, you know, take risks on things, and then setting clear goals, being very transparent about what you’re trying to achieve and how you want to measure it, to make sure that you can adapt and shift when necessary. So all of these things are important in ensuring that digital, you can move towards digital transformation successfully and move through it, I guess I would say. And so you have your leadership, you have your processes, you have, you know, your team dynamics, you have making sure your goals are clear, set, clearly, communicated. All of those work together, I think, in tandem.

Kayleigh Bateman: 17:56
I love that. I love everything you just said, especially about an environment to fail, which is so important. But also you talked about you know a way to measure what you’re doing as well and what you’re achieving and how to move forward from that. There are so many companies that forget that part, and I think you know a lot of companies. They they tick that box on. They think they’re doing something with diversity or they might partner with somebody just so they can put a badge on their website and that’s it, and they don’t actually measure what they’re doing and whether or not it’s working for their workforce and how they’re actually moving forward. And so so important to just check back at what you’re doing and if you’re making progress.

Kayleigh Bateman: 18:38
I want to ask you a little bit why the company is undergoing a digital transformation, need diversity, which we have covered a little bit already. But I suppose it’s this kind of. What I’m thinking is a lot of companies they still think that diversity is one of those nice to have. So you know, it’s kind of it’s not always part of the day to day, but what we spoke about on here already you know already in our conversation is that it just should be. Diversity should be at the forefront, especially at the forefront of digital transformation. Not kind of an afterthought, is that something you would agree with?

Mia Ellis: 19:14
Yes, absolutely. I would say that companies that understand that, knowing how to operate within a diverse space, how to lead, how to be able to leverage skills in a diverse audience, how to apply diverse perspectives to a strategy, all of those things that we, like you said, talked about are a necessity, and I know that the organizations at least from Dr Linda Hill’s research, her study that she conducted and it wasn’t just in the States, it was across 90 countries. So this is something that multiple global companies have recognized and realized and have really started to place an emphasis on. So I don’t think that it’s going to go anywhere. I think that most people will eventually start to realize that it is a necessary component to have.

Kayleigh Bateman: 20:05
Definitely and I mean hopefully and the more the companies realize that and the more that people do it and show the benefits and the results that they got from that, the more that will continue to follow. And you are right, there is some great research out there. Now that you know and you mentioned Mackenzie they had a great report about just showing the results of what these companies have been doing, and I remember Mackenzie bought a report out which said about profit increase and suddenly it was like a lot of companies that is pricked up, so it’s not a nice to have. It actually increases your bottom line as well, and thankfully there is more and more research that can show that. Now to help support companies who are looking to improve diversity in their workforce I mean, as we said on here repeatedly, obviously it is a no brainer, but what can organizations do to ensure that they’re getting a diverse range of voices within their transformation?

Mia Ellis: 21:06
Yeah, so I think shifting to the recruitment part of the talent, this is another multifaceted, nuanced approach that I would suggest in this regard. It’s not as easy as just posting a job and thinking that everybody is going to come. I always kind of use the term of farming or cultivating as opposed to hunting when you’re trying to look for this talent right. So you want to make sure that number one, you’re restructuring the hiring process to prioritize identifying, finding diverse talents. So you’re looking at your talent pool and saying how can we broaden this? How can we partner with different organizations, universities, different conferences, make sure we have the tendencies there to be able to connect and build relationships with these groups and I say build relationships intentionally because it is a long time process. You have some organizations that, when you want, they’re really focused on bringing in diversity, but it’s kind of we go one time, set up a table, recruit and then we’re gone, as opposed to this long term relationship that really cultivates a trusting environment where they see you as an employee of choice that they know will. Maybe that looks like donating your time or doing some job shadowing or doing some mentorship opportunities where you’re constantly staying in contact with these groups and these communities so that trust builds over time.

Mia Ellis: 22:46
And you want to do that because these groups of people they know when they’re being targeted to be drawn in for diversity. They’re very savvy, they know this and they want to ensure that they’re going to an organization that has a very strong, clear strategy to help them thrive in advance. So they’re going to ask those questions. They’re going to want to know what are your. They’re going to have very targeted questions about representation and what are you doing within your organization to prioritize this?

Mia Ellis: 23:17
And you want to set up your hiring managers and your recruiters to be able to answer those questions as best as possible and making sure that they feel safe and going through your process, your recruitment process, as much as possible and that you’re mitigating bias throughout so that their experience is very pleasant and positive and even if they don’t choose to come to your organization, they might come back at a later time or they might recommend it to someone else. That’s essentially where you want to get to when you’re looking at bringing more diversity into your organization. So talent is much more savvy. They’re going to be looking out for certain things and so making sure that you have a professional within your organization to help guide you, I think is also important on restructuring your processes is, I would say, a big priority. So all of those things would be my recommendation in that regard when you’re starting to look to bring more diversity into your organization.

Kayleigh Bateman: 24:24
Yes, definitely, Money is not a, as you said, turn up to one thing, put up one table, recruit and leave. I completely agree with that. You are right. Some companies they think it just happens overnight, and a lot of the companies that we work with which she can code, they’re working. They have a long term strategy, where a small part of that long term strategy and you’re right it’s partnering with lots of different organizations, it’s being present at conferences or having leadership team that speaks on the subject. And you are right, it’s so many different avenues, not just a quick table set up, recruit and gone. And I agree with as well, even if somebody doesn’t join your company at that point in time, they might join in the future if your strategy is a long term one. So I couldn’t agree more with you on all of the different things that a company needs to do. We’ve seen a number of calls for workers to return to the office. Do you see this as a long term strategy or will companies lose out on great talent?

Mia Ellis: 25:33
Yeah, I think this is a honestly, kaylee, I think this is a very polarized topic for a lot of people and I know that it really depends on the person individually, that employee, whether going into the office benefits them or not. You know, since we’re talking through a DNI lens, I will say that there are people who have marginalized identities, that when things went remote or in hybrid, they did take a bit of a breath and it was like a relief for them because, you know, they didn’t have to necessarily deal with microaggressions or kind of put on a mask, that they were okay, and so they did take a little bit of a breath and keeping that in mind, on the other hand, there were other people who really struggled without being in the office and around people and it impacted their mental health very deeply and they wanted to be in the office. And then there are other people who were like hey, I, you know, prefer my own space. Maybe I’m neurodiverse and I don’t really, you know, like the noise or whatever it might be. So there’s so many different layers of why people may or may not and because of that, I would suggest that, whatever the organization, whatever decision they decide, is to make sure that you’re bringing your people along with you, and so you ask your employees what’s why they may or may not have a certain preference.

Mia Ellis: 27:03
Bringing them along with that decision whether it’s hybrid or coming back in is so, so important, because people don’t want to feel like they are not in control of something that’s impacting them very deeply and it might impact them in a way that you might not know or anticipate. So, having very, very clear communication, as I said, my I have a my master’s degrees in change management and one of those principles is, you know, making sure that you are bringing along people with the change that you’re implementing. Right, you want to be very clear in communicating. You don’t want people to feel like something’s happening to them. You want them to feel like they’re a part of it and their thoughts were taken into account. Otherwise, you’re going to have this really strong resistance if people feel that that kind of choice or their decisions weren’t really incorporated in the decision that was made. So, whatever you are doing or whatever you decide as a company, just make sure you’re taking your employees along with you and asking them.

Kayleigh Bateman: 28:07
Yes, definitely yeah, because you said they’re in instead of somebody just feel like something is just sort of happening to them and there’s no control over that. And I love the fact that you mentioned neurodiversity and all of the different things actually that feed into why somebody would prefer to still work from home, or do you know a hybrid mix of home and the office? I think sometimes that always goes straight to parents and childcare, but actually I love the fact that you mentioned lots of other different reasons there as to why somebody you know would still want to be hybrid, at least. Because you’re right, it’s talking to the employee and each employee and the differences that they have in their needs. Because I think you are right, you could.

Kayleigh Bateman: 28:53
You could lose a lot of good talent along the way. You’re kind of just pushing people in a direction that they didn’t want to go. And if you’ve done all that work to try and find a diverse workforce and then you do something to make them all leave, right, it’s not a good plan. Right, we are nearly out of time, so I have one last question for you. I could talk to you for another hour. One last question what do you think is next for diversity and digital transformation?

Mia Ellis: 29:24
Yes, that is a really great question, as I kind of alluded to this before, but I do see it going and growing. I think a lot of more organizations they are recognizing it. So here, as someone who’s based in the States, conversations around DEI have been happening for some time and you know, I’m starting to see now that it’s becoming more global and so places and parts of the world that I never saw DEI roles popping up before are now happening, and I do think it is because those barriers are coming down and organizations and industries are becoming more global and realizing hey, we just need to have better understanding of people. How do we understand them? How do we communicate better? How do we anticipate needs better? And so I think that we will continue to see this upward trend of diversity being aligned with digital transformation. And currently I’ll add this I’m in my doctorate program and at the dissertation stage, and that’s what I’m going to be writing my dissertation on as well, so I’m really excited to see how this continues to change and evolve over time.

Mia Ellis: 30:42
So that’s what I would think is that this is not a concept that’s going to be going away. I think it’s just going to become more and more prominent and more and more implemented within strategies of global organizations.

Kayleigh Bateman: 30:57
Yes, I agree. I am pleased that it’s not going away because I think during the pandemic it was something that I think those of us that work in that area were thinking oh, is that something that now we’re going to take a step back from that? Is it? Was that nice to have suddenly going to disappear? We kind of got over the hurdle of the nice to have, and now the pandemic hit. What’s going to get hit first? Is it going to be diversity? But luckily that didn’t happen. In your right, I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon.

Mia Ellis: 31:29
As long as we have people in organizations, we’re going to need it.

Kayleigh Bateman: 31:34
Exactly, I agree, and now I don’t think we have to struggle with that argument much anymore. That evidence is there and you’re right, as long as there are people and good companies. Listen to their people is the other thing, and talent knows. When you mentioned earlier that talent is very savvy, it is. And talent knows when they’re at a good company that actually listens to them and they jump ship Obviously if they feel they’re at the wrong place. There was a brilliant survey, a report recently Actually, I’ve seen a couple on the same subject recently about young people and what they look for when they join a job. Now and more and more I keep seeing that the younger generations are not looking at salary, they’re looking at culture, diversity. It’s suddenly a priority, thankfully, for younger generations. So if your company doesn’t reflect that, then you’re not going to bring in the good talent. Exactly.

Mia Ellis: 32:29
Absolutely right I would agree.

Kayleigh Bateman: 32:31
We are already out of time. I could talk to you for another hour or so this afternoon on this topic, but, as Plomenby say, thank you so much, mia. It’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.

Mia Ellis: 32:44
Thank you for having me. This has been great.

Kayleigh Bateman: 32:47
And so everybody listening as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.