hello everyone and thank you for tuning in as always I am Kaylee batesman the content director at chican code and
today we’re going to be discussing how to tackle the tech Talent shortage now despite the UK tech industry being
valued at 1 trillion in 2022 the lack of UK Tech Talent is threatening to stifle
the industry’s growth but why is there a shortage of tech talent and how can we counteract this I have the wonderful
Marion Stewart’s chief executive officer at Red Helix with me today to help answer that question Oh Come Marion
hi thanks Kelly great to be here thank you very much for joining us this morning and before we get started with
our discussion today can we um start by hearing a little bit about your background please
sure so I started my career in Tech uh
straight out of school actually I was very fortunate in that uh even back then you know some 30 years ago
um I was very strong in the same stem subjects in school and I went on to
study electrical and electronic engineering uh one of the only females in my class at the time which was
amazing because that pushed me to know everything because I felt like my lecturers picked on me all the time
because I was one of only two females so if anything that sort of stood me in great stead
I moved from more Electronics into it so I didn’t start my career in in it but it
really caused linkage between the electronic chip manufacturers and in the I.T sector and then after that I spent I
spent about 20 years moving through uh career levels in places like you know a
bit of public sector so Sat by police in Scotland I moved from there to Intel
um very big organization very process driven like great grinding in business
efficiencies actually um and then moved into the PE world and
I’ve held um CEO type rules for the last 10 years
in PE backed businesses like Daisy Polson and now here at Red Helix where
I’ve just recently taken on the CEO role how wonderful to hear as well that you
went straight into Tech from scope because we hear a lot of ladies who start in something different and then
fall into Tech and but you you had a plan and you went into electronic engineering was there something about
that was there something about tinkering with things when you were younger and you did you take about take out the
toaster or anything like that I did you know I did I I loved tinkering with
things I loved physics at school I I always had a keen interest in how does
that work I think I must have driven my uh my parents mad particularly my dad
actually um and my dad uh was very technical he
worked in the uh production of electricity um on the technical side and so I think
I I my interest was peaked at a very young age of how do we make electricity
where does it come from and uh you know it sort of I think my interest in Tech
really uh spun out of that um that that sort of interest and I
think it’s hard because I think a lot of a lot of people today don’t your parents
are so busy and I include myself in that we are just so busy with our jobs like we don’t we don’t often think about how
we spend time with our children to excite them around that stuff actually yeah and the and the type of jobs that
they’re exposed to um and we we had a discussion last week on here
um about the type of jobs that you see on TV and and when you’re younger you know the people that you see a lot of
young people they see programs about lawyers and doctors and um you don’t always see programs about cool people in
technology you get the Nerds exactly exactly um it’s really interesting though even
in schools they do the um the career uh days and you get you know the
traditional professions the firefighters the the medical professions Etc which is
fantastic what you seldom see in those School career days is the tech industry
represented in fact my my daughter is is eight and they did a whole series of um
uh you know people coming in and she was really excited about it and I said so if you’ve got someone coming in from the
text technology sector and she said to me um I am no I don’t think we have I’ll
ask my teacher about that and bless her she came back and she said to me um my
teacher said that isn’t a proper profession mommy and I was apoplectic I
thought what a normal thing to tell an eight-year-old girl and um so yeah it’s like I I took action I
got in touch with the school and I said look you know I think it’s important at an early age we start to engage children
in thinking about all sorts of careers not just the ones that are perhaps
glamorized on TV shows Etc and um so yeah I went in and and did a talk
um on the I.T sector and the exciting ranges of careers that are are on offer
there and why they should be interested but um yeah but anyway that’s a an
interesting anecdote as to why um many children don’t see stem as exciting as they go through school yeah
yes and wonderful that you you Embrace that and thought you know what I’m going to go in and talk about my my job and
what I do because you’re right it’s only really what you see on TV or if you have a career advisor at school as well what
they know and you you take I remember when I was at school I took one of those strange tests where they come up with
what you might be good at and I remember they said to me um you’re slightly creative because
you’re left-handed so you should probably become a florist
right and even as a young person you think well yeah that’s not quite right
um yeah it depends on what they know and what they have access to as well yes I agree and this leads nicely onto our
conversation today about you know um uh Tech talent and and the shortage of skills and why is there a shortage of
tech Talent we touched upon it a little bit there with a lack of visibility um but you know what do you think is
causing it I think there’s a I think there’s a number of things I I think the
rate of growth in vacancies new newly created vacancies as a result of growth
in the technology sector and the uh uh I suppose consumer consumption of of that
technology is is rapidly growing and I think the growth in vacancies is
outstripping the growth and entrance to Tech as a career unfortunately
um I think the other thing that doesn’t help is during the pandemic I think I’ll
there was a lot of people who reassessed you know do do I want to do the two or
three hour commute into London because unfortunately a lot of the technical sector
um is LED and driven um you know around around London and
then and I think you know they talk about the great resignation there was there was an element of that you know
not all of it some of the people moving jobs old but there was also an element of it where you know people were
deciding to make a lifestyle choice to leave the sector and leave the pressure
that comes with that and you know you can you can read and I can cite many
cases where people decided to go and set up a completely different business doing something else for themselves
um and I think a lot of that was around you know the flexibility and the perceived
um flexibility that’s on offer uh from technical uh roles so so I think the
growth in the tech sector coupled with a lot of people deciding to exit the sector and not attract as much new
Talent is really interesting I think the other thing that’s happening
is when you look at the sort of the educational side you know stem subject
um in terms of degrees there’s only uh about 18 of people that leave University
with a stem degree are female and so there’s something isn’t working in the
system when you look at the attainment of of girls as they exit school and the
subjects that they’re choosing going into University but we’re not making that attractive enough across the board
but even less attractive for for females which again I think is uh is is another
underlying cause so you end up with you know a large
um swave of the population almost excluded from entering the I.T sector
yeah and it’s interesting that you mentioned about uh covid in the pandemic because you’re absolutely right that
that for some companies that was an advantage and for others as you mentioned people just really started to
weigh up what was important to them and whether or not you know their company um could help rebalance how how they
wanted to to live um and work um the pandemic obviously we saw a need
for more skilled workers um but now we’re seeing companies like Twitter and meta they’re laying off
their staff and does this mean the shortage is likely to come to an end
but I don’t think so I think the companies that will come out on top are those that adapt to uh you know what the
workforce need in order to create more balance coming out of the pandemic
um I think the vacancies for skilled technical people will continue to
outstrip um the talent pool that’s available
um I know when uh when some of the other Tech Giants have have laid people off
and you know Citrix during the pandemic actually laid off a huge number of people uh you know the market snapped
them and snapped them up uh in in a matter of weeks and and I’m I’m I’m
certain the same will happen uh with the talent coming out of Facebook and Twitter uh I think the other thing
that’s happening is you know the the homeworking uh efficacy has been proven
through the pandemic make and I think uh geographical barriers have been broken
down so you know the the concept of having people in the office five days a
week is just not valid for most technology companies it’s not a way
that’s going to make them successful in attracting Talent so again I think those
large tech companies that that let people go there they’re good people will be snapped up by other companies not
just around the UK um but across Europe and and the US uh
as well because those geographical barriers are are no longer valid and and
I think the rate of vacancies will continue to outstrip the the um the rate
of uh redundancies yeah yeah with the the um snapping up of
Talon I think you’re absolutely right I hadn’t thought of it that way we keep hearing about a lot of redundancies at
the moment um but as you said there are lots of other companies out there that have the vacancies and are looking for that
Talent um I only spoke to a company recently who said they are hired a lady
um knowing that she was about to go on maternity leave so she they said you know she was so talented and we we
wanted her on our Tech team that we hired her and said go straight into maternity leave and we’ll see you when
you’re done um because you know it’s just looking for those individuals that can really add value and they saw that in her
um so yeah I think it’s just a company’s um looking at things differently isn’t it what if what a fantastic case study
they should be shaking from the rooftops about that yeah yes yeah yeah because
they just saw her potential yeah and thought you know what we we will grab her
um and and Steve after maternity so um where should companies be looking to
plug the skills Gap do you think I think there’s a number of ways that companies should address this I think
first and foremost uh looking internally um I think all too often organizations
look and say oh you know we need to hire our senior individual and the reality is
if if they had effective um Career Development paths and training
uh programs you can self-grow uh your
internal Talent into those senior roles um so I think as as companies and
organizations we need to examine more closely how we think about Career
Development and and you know everyone should almost everyone in a tech role should be trained to do the job above
them so that as as those needs rise we’re able to promote from within and I
think that does a couple of things it it brings a very engaged Workforce because you know people see a career potential
and and you stem the flow of great talent from your business you know staff retention in this climate is uh is is
really critical when you think about the number of vacancies and the and the size of the the market that we have
so I think that’s one thing organizations need to to think about and how they do better on I think the second
thing is thinking about how we attract talent in from outside the sector and
there’s two two elements to that one is attracting
um early and career Talent so how do we bring people who perhaps don’t want to
take the the pure University life to come in through apprenticeships Etc into
the tech technology sector um or out of University undergraduate
programs and I think that’s one route and that they as a you know as a sector
we need to do better at creating more opportunities for apprenticeships and
graduates to be more enticing for early in in career individuals whatever
subjects they’ve studied in University um creating those Pathways for them to
to join the sector I think the other thing is and this is this is the I think the bigger in some
ways the bigger opportunity is thinking about how you know some of the other sectors if you think about High Street
retail is a great example you know there is there are a huge sweep of
um uh issues and challenges with with layoffs and in in High Street
um because frickfall on the High Street is declining in in favor of online shopping
um and so I think there’s we as an industry we need to think about Pathways for bringing people in who have perhaps
had a bit of a career in a completely different sector um they’ll have life skills and
client-facing skills Etc if I pick the retail sector there’s just one example you know they’ll have life skills and
client-facing skills Etc what they won’t have is the tech skills that doesn’t mean they’re not
capable of building the tech skills and I think you need more pathways a lie was
to cross-pollinate from other sectors that are in Decline into the tech sector
um you know at a trillion market value and 2 million vacancies we must be able
to uh fund programs that that enable that and I think that would help in two
ways I think it helped grow the talent pool but I think also a lot of those sectors are quite heavily female
oriented so for me that would afford um or almost hitting two two metrics
with um with one program uh one is you know Finding alternative careers for a
declining sector but also affording many more women and entry pathway into the
technology sector yes it’s so interesting you’re talking about career transitions that’s
something that um we talk about a lot on here and if she can code because you’re absolutely
right if there is a school shortage it’s just expanding that that thought pattern
and thinking you know what there are lots of transferable skills and we we had the ladies that we have on here they
really surprised me sometimes about their previous careers and a lady the other day she previously was an
archaeologist and decided to come into the technology and you think there are just so many Crossovers and transferable
skills that employers um you know should be it should always be open to that and how they can help
that individual move forward because that’s actually my next question I
wanted to ask you you know should employers be investing in training and reskilling entry-level employees rather
than looking for an employee and who has it all because I think that’s probably where they get stuck and they think you
know I’m and it is a lot to take on an employee and obviously the cost of that
and and the risk of making sure that they have everything you need and that they’re going to push forward in that
role um but sometimes if you take on the right person and you can skill them up
in the areas that you need um then that’s that’s a far better route to take and then just always looking for
that perhaps that graduate that has the computer science degree but I I agree and I and I think I think having that
balance between you know more experienced people that you’re developing in career Pathways you
might have you know it’s I think of it like a triangle so yes at the top you need two or three who are very
experienced then you need some mid-level that that you’re continuing to be able to develop and then at the bottom is
your is your growth talent pool so you sort of have that triangle of uh of
talent that you’re continuing to nurture through the business um and and I think what’s happened in
the market in in the job market over the last six months is um a lot of employers are targeting the
top end of that triangle and and that is pushing up cost to businesses actually
um because they they carry a premium because there are there are less of them so the whole you know the economics of
um uh supply and demand kick in um and and you have you know many many
companies chasing few fewer candidates and what we’re not doing is investing
enough and developing more at that level so I agree I think having
um a stream of uh alien alien Tech Career
um people coming in is really important to uh to the industry
um and I think part of the reason the industry isn’t growing faster is because we’re not doing that fast enough you
know you don’t sit as an industry with two million vacancies um and and are able to economically
maximize the value of that industry you know if if we have a a trillion pound
industry imagine if what it would be worth if those two million vacancies were filled
um so I think there’s definitely um a lot that we need to do as an industry to make it more accessible to
early and career whether they’ve done it or not um in in in our company we engaged in
the government Kickstart uh scheme through covid actually and we brought in
three um young individuals who had no
aspirations for a career in I.T they didn’t even know what it was and I have
to say you know they did the Kickstart scheme for six months funded and we’ve kept them on and filled time
apprenticeships and you will not find find three individuals who are more
passionate about the tech sector um you know and one of those was a
female which is fantastic so one out of three you know not bad um but that that for me was a fantastic
experience for us to to see the art of what’s possible um and and we as an organization that
read Helix now um Target most of our vacancies at that entry level
um uh so that we can nurture and and grow and develop uh the talent once it’s on the inside and I think aptitude and
mindset is um is really you know what companies should think about first
because you can develop the skill the technical skill is that that entry level in an early
career as well that can apply um at any point as well that can you know that can be somebody in their 40s
um absolutely yeah they’ve just you know started to look into Tech and they want to
um to train we we speak to a lot of ladies um who you know later in life decided a
career in technology is for them because it’s very flexible they might be working around family life
um the pay is good you know there’s lots of great benefits that suddenly later
um in life you might realize actually a career in technology is for me um so it’s not always about you know
those coming out of University absolutely absolutely and I think for us
you know we um we we think about that uh all the time in terms of then that the
news about the you know the cross-sector um uh Pathways so uh you know we we we
do think about that and I think as an industry we we don’t talk about how we make that happen and you know I’m sure
there’s some great examples of of those things being done I think particularly with um with females um showing case
studies on that that showing the art of what’s possible gives people the
confidence then to step into that and and I think you know there’s there’s we
need to talk about that more as an industry uh it’s funny on TV you’ll see adverts of um you know ambulances
rushing or you talked about it earlier the uh the the drama on TV around some
of those uh other types of careers you don’t often see it being held up as a a
a career of choice in in those worlds so so you think where where do people get
their ideas of what the tech industry is about if we’re not publicizing those
things yes and that you can still have the drama if you want it you can still
find that in text absolutely still making impact I remember years ago I was chatting with
um a CIO in the British army um and he was telling me you know they
just land in a country and they have to get there first um and they have to set up technology
before everybody else turns up and I remember thinking you know I haven’t even thought of that I have to set up
all of the tech and cons before you know even the Infantry turn up
um and it sounded like such an interesting job but one actually you wouldn’t probably wouldn’t make that connection with the British Army and
Tech yeah and it’s interesting because we if you think about during the pandemic in in the early stages of the
pandemic you know I worked um at a data center company then as a
CEO and if you think about you know traditionally in the UK at any one time
only about a third of the workforce would work from home at any one time
during the pandemic that went from a third to you know 95 percent
um so everyone was relying on the home broadband networks you know I can tell you the home broadband networks from a
capacity perspective were not scaled to a hundred percent of the UK Workforce or
anywhere near it and so in in the in the first few weeks you talk about drama you
know that they’re where uh telecoms Engineers driving to Data Centers expanding capacity installing new
infrastructure in record uh time um in order to uh to keep the the UK
Workforce working and um provide the um the the the home tech services and you
know I always thought that would make a fantastic advert for Tech if somebody filmed it um because the drag the drama and the
excitement is is is there um we just don’t um we don’t see we’re not good at socializing it yeah yes yeah
yeah and in terms of women um in Tech how come women take advantage
of the shortage um from from a career perspective but I think with the shortage and talent in
the tech sector it is making technical organizations think more broadly about
how they bring town Islands in to the business and I think you know in many
instances I think that affords women in particular the opportunity to
um not to stand out in terms of their skill and the diversity that they bring to an organization but also to take
advantage of you know some of the opening of flexible working hours and
being able to work around uh child care rightly or wrongly in the UK women are
are still the predominant uh child care givers because uh you know historically
male males earn more you know and that’s clearly a different issue we’ve got to redress but I think with with the number
of vacancies more organizations are open to females availing themselves of
working around Child Care Etc I think also historically I think women have
been has to say you know they look at a job spec and they think well I’ve only got five
of those six things whereas um you know I don’t think men are are nurtured to think about that they’re not
trying to think why I can I can do anything you know and and I think this is a forgiveness later exactly and and I
think this is a great opportunity for women to adopt that mindset
um and and you know perhaps break through some of that unconscious uh some
of those unconscious barriers to say do you know what I can do this there isn’t anyone else that that’s going to come
and take that job um so I am going to go go forward for it
um so I think I think there’s um I think there’s a great a great opportunity for
for women in particular to take advantage of the sheer volume of vacancies and and approach it from the
the perspective of yeah I can do this I think there’s also an opportunity for
women who are in Tech careers to invite more women into it
um and think about the Outreach you know if I I do it in our company all the time
you know um not only asking where we’ve got vacancies do you know people that might
be interested in this I asked the question do you have any females in your network that might be interested in in
joining this entry level uh Tech rule um so I I think women in Tech schools
can also help by promoting other females to come into their organization yeah yeah and you touched upon and
parenting a little bit there um and and mums obviously so mum’s
returning to the workforce um offer a huge area of untapped talent and why do you think employers are
overlooking them but I think it’s an unconscious bias
um I I don’t I genuinely don’t think people hiring go with the thought in
their mind I’m not going to hire a woman but I think it’s an unconscious bias I don’t think the the hiring
processes or people who are doing hiring are aware of it I think awareness is
beginning to improve but I don’t think as a sector I don’t think we’ve
addressed the unconscious biases just yet um and I think that’s something that
we’ve got to do um I think you know I think that people do look at applicants and they
unconsciously stereotype um you know well if it’s a working mum with two young children what problems is
that and and and there’s a there’s a mindset around that the the ensues you
know I I I have three young children um my children are age 11 and 13.
um and so I know what it’s what it’s what it’s like balancing those things you know when one’s all sick Etc but not
everyone um not everyone gets that so I think those unconscious biases creep in I
think there’s a bit more as an industry we need to do in terms of making people aware that those biases do exist but you
know it’s not a conscious thing it doesn’t make someone a bad person
um but you need to be aware of it and we need to be talking about it all the time um I think um I think also so there’s
more a lot of people use recruitment agencies and Headhunters Etc and I think
as a sector there’s more that they need to do in terms of how do we target more
applications from women um you know I I quite often when we
release technical roles I’ll see uh 10 CVS for coming from males and if I’m
lucky I’ll get one from female when I see that ratio I send the recruiters back and I I tell them actively you need
to go and think again right I want to see a minimum and I’m in a minimum of a
third coming from women it’s not realistic that you’ll see 50 50 or 70 30
I’d love to say it is but I set a sort of minimum that I expect as a third and
until you find me a third I don’t want to look at what you’ve got in front of me and I’ll always recruit who I think
is best bit I I don’t I’m not someone who um subscribes to quotas I think you know
I think there’s lots of issues with with that um but I think setting those kind of
targets on on your recruitments and and setting uh kpis around how you uh how
you invite that and how you think about attracting more female Talent
um is a really important thing for our sector or you know five years from now
we won’t be sitting with two million vacancies we’ll be sitting with five million vacancies yes yeah and and
um uh recruitment as well I found that uh when you recruit people with young
children whether they be male or female they’re actually um more committed because if they were
to leave a job and they think well actually my day I have to you know try and rework my day with a new employer
and they seem to be far more committed to staying in a role for longer because they find something that works for them
whereas you know somebody without children just might be thinking you know I can I can flirt a company to company
it doesn’t bother me absolutely absolutely I think you’re right I think you get more commitment I think you get
loyalty um and and I think you get passion I think you know you get people who want
to be a part of your long-term future and and you’re right that that isn’t
always an attribute of of people without without families
um and and I think some of the flexible working policies one of the things we’ve done in red Helix and I’m sure many
companies do this you know we we encourage flexible flexibility around
starting time Etc not just for females but for males as well you know the the
uh I’ll often say to some of the guys in the corridor you know how many times
this week if you dropped your kids off at school and actually encouraging um nails to experience that um with
their children and and I think that’s a really important part of breaking down those unconscious biases is is this sort
of put yourself in those shoes for for one day a week or something you know um I I think in doing things like that
we can also break down some of the unconscious biases that that sit around it
yes yes we are almost out of time but I have one more question to ask you um do you have any advice for our
listeners um who might be thinking about a career in technology I think um I think there’s a couple of
things I would see I think first and foremost try and find a company that
will afford you the opportunity to develop um you know
be be careful in the organization that you choose to join because you want your
first experience in Tech to be a great experience um and and it’s you know it’s finding a
company particularly if you’re a female that has other females in there that you
can tap on as Role Models you know in the interview process there is there is
nothing wrong with asking questions about um what you know what you do you have a
a female support group or female coaching and mentoring uh program Etc and show that level of of interest
in in developing um I think the other thing is finding females in similar fields and using some
of the networking um organizations to help support and
collaborate with you through that career so organizations like she can code
organizations like women in Tech um I find them a great source of information and and frankly a great
source of inspiration um so that would be my two pieces of advice choose the company carefully and
use that network of support of other females that that wrap around it that can wrap around us that’s a lovely
advice to end it on today so thank you so much Marion for taking the time to to chat with us this morning it’s been
really really interesting so thank you so much you’re welcome it’s been my
pleasure thank you and to everybody listening as always thank you for joining us and we
hope to see you again next time
Tackling the tech talent shortage
ARTICLE SUMMARY
Despite the UK tech industry being valued at £1 trillion in 2022, the lack of UK tech talent is threatening to stifle the industry’s growth.
But why is there a shortage of talent and how can we counteract this?
Amongst other things, the shortage is partly due to rapid digital transformation which has accelerated the demand for skilled workers. The global pandemic pushed the pace of digital transformation further, creating a need for employees to fill that gap.
So where do we go to plug the gap? There is a wealth of untapped talent in the UK, including female returners, entry-level workers and culturally diverse workers.
In this episode, Marion Stewart, Chief Operating Officer at Red Helix, delves into the talent shortage further and what can be done about it.
As Chief Operations Officer, Marion is an integral part of the Red Helix management team. With more than 30 years of industry experience in companies such as Pulsant, Daisy Group, Alternative Networks and Star Technology, Marion offers fresh input to strategy and ensures Red Helix’s delivers on its growth strategy. Marion has gained expertise in leading successful multi-disciplinary teams, whilst transforming operational and service delivery models across both UK and International organisations to deliver world-class customer experience efficiently and in line with industry best practice.
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