On the surface, it looks like gender imbalance in the workplace is levelling out in tech and that women are being represented fairly.
But, when you delve deeper into the statistics, there’s still considerable work to be done.
In this podcast episode, we take a look at what the current generation of women in tech can do to help move the needle on female representation and how they can be the catalyst that inspires young girls.
Joining us to discuss this is Clare Hickie, Chief Technology Officer for EMEA, Workday!
Clare joined Workday in June 2018. She is not only a passionate technology champion but inspires tech leaders to achieve full advantage from the rich Workday platform. As an IT specialist, Clare started her career in the .com era, moving on to the current times of digital transformation. Prior to joining Workday, she worked for large blue-chip organisations including GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) and General Electric . Originally from Ireland, she spent many years living in the UK, but is now based back on the East Coast of Ireland. She holds a BSc (Hons) in Computer Studies and Business Studies from Brunel University, London.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in as always I am Katie batesman the content director at chican code and in
today’s episode we’re discussing moving the needle how can current women in Tech help future generations to come now on
the surface it looks like gender imbalance in the workplace is leveling out in Tech but when you delve deeper
into the statistics there’s still work to be done joining us today is Claire
hickey Chief technology officer for Amir at workday who is here to help me take a
look at the current generation of women in Tech what they can do to move the needle on female representation and how
they can be the Catalyst that inspires young girls welcome Claire thank you delighted to be here yeah I’m so pleased
to have you here thank you so much Cliff for joining us today and we’d love to kick off with a little bit of background
about yourself if that’s okay yeah sure I’d be delighted to it’s going to start at the beginning
it’s always a very good place to start the song goes um so I really I predominantly have
worked in large Blue Chip organizations before joining workday five years ago in
fact my work day anniversary was only last week so that’s a very updated number I just given there I did a double
degree in Business studies and computer studies and found myself being drawn towards the world of technology really
very quickly at the time Tech was changing rapidly the dark calm era had
started and I quickly found myself with opportunities to progress into a really
changing world I was working for one of the GE Capital businesses when in about
98.99 I was approached by my manager to build their first infinite and the truth
was I was actually learning C plus plus coding which you don’t actually lease for internet and and it was a a kind of
a really milestone in my career she dropped a book on my desk one day called understanding intranets and said we need
one of those in nine weeks so I took the challenge and I got the
first intranet for that division of GE Capital up and going in the nine-week period with a fantastic team behind me
so subsequently and very quickly I became the.com Specialist or the.com
queen at the time and that was with varying in degrees of deployment development and strategy in intranets
extranets in trinettes and a lot around the digitization effort and I even
endeavored now I’m talking about the late 90s so I even endeavored to have a
paperless office so I only allowed the office that I was in at the time that they could only print one day a week
which was uh pretty mind-boggling uh there and then I then joined uh GSK in
2003. and although I started my world in GSK
um in the business area I quickly spread my knowledge to more back office applications and ultimately specializing
in HR application space and that really was again from development to designing
deploying and strategy and then came the next era which was digital
transformation so once again I embraced that opportunity and began to really grow and learn and
in 2011 2012 we selected workday on the back of a partnership between a HR
transformation and the I.T simplification agenda and I went on to lead a very large and complex deployment
from that I.T perspective but as I said partly really closely with HR and then I
joined workday five years ago and as I had a real passion for the
platform I saw for myself the change it made and I also really affiliated with
the culture and the values of the workmates and here’s workday we call our
employees workmates because that’s what they are to us and I remember thinking through all of my interactions you know
what a great Bunch they were incredibly experienced incredibly professional and
such about as fun about them so I remember thinking that I really would like to work for that organization and
then I ended up with this opportunity as I said now five years ago so really from
my perspective I couldn’t have mapped out my career the way that it really turned out but you know curiosity taking
opportunity and risks and my Hunger for technology and continuous learning
really provided me with a fantastic career in technology and I would never
have wanted to be in any other profession than actually in technology are you just a continuous learning there
I actually I I was thinking that because when you told your story you were saying I was learning C plus plus but actually
I didn’t need to learn that and then I learned about digital transformation they wasn’t really happening at the time it was almost like you were always one
step ahead that that seems to be a mindset of somebody that works in Tech to sort of always be learning and
thinking what’s coming next yeah and you know just to respond to that anyway I mean technology we see that over the
years technology is continuously involved evolving and so you know when you have got that hunger to want to grow
the opportunity is there the opportunity becomes available for you very quickly and in actual fact you also have got
that time in your organizations give it and your you know your workmates and external organizations and providing
that growth and that learning opportunity really starts to lend to lend at your desk so you know from my
perspective everything that I did in terms of taking those risks that I didn’t know something about something
but I was definitely prepared to learn it and then as I said my career made that progression very quickly yeah and
you took a traditional route in so you knew you knew what you wanted to do was
it at the time seen as taking a bit of a risk that you took you know business and computer studies that you know what what
did look at the time I think it’s interesting um because you know as I
said I certainly wouldn’t want to have a career anywhere else other than technology I wouldn’t have definitely
said but I knew what I wanted to do I knew that I had a passion for computer
studies and Technologies I really start to study it I remember doing my dissertation on UI
um end user experience and that was a really long time ago and I Remember Loving learning about it and the impact
that it can make to organizations and again this was you know this was quite early days and I think so my my the
through the girls opportunity that I had and especially through the degrees that I chose and I actually was a very
fortunate place because of it being a double degree I ended up almost with that choice but I had the business
background through my studies and then I was able to apply it from a computer studies technology perspective yeah yeah
because uh on on here we always ask you know ladies what encourage them to to go
into the the industry um and you know yourself you you seem to pick a career route that you know you you enjoyed
computer studies and and the business side and and luckily you know it worked out um and that’s the career that you
stayed in we don’t hear that often you hear a lot of ladies all into technology um but I mean from your side I suppose
well what I wanted to ask is why is a career in Tech as such a great choice um for women but I suppose there are
there are lots of advantages of working in technology isn’t there not just being a woman but you know yeah there really
is so you know I really think if you start to you know really look at the general uptake of roles by women in stem
there is a clear shortage so there are certainly some great examples of how SAS
in particular has emerged as a technology and business skills as we just talked about and I think this has a
really positive impact in attracting more women into technology you know I’ve seen a lot of colleagues shift from
being business focused roles into pure technology rules I also know many way
amazing women in technology both at workday and in many other organizations who started their careers at developers
and engineers and they’re now technology leaders and even cios and really large Global organizations so you know a
career in technology actually is for everyone it’s Progressive it’s rewarding
it’s exciting and believe it or not it actually can be fun and many career paths are now available
so you know from being a business analyst to an architect to a project manager to a consultant got data
scientists developers Engineers you know cyber security user experience designer
and these roles and others just keep on growing so it’s that shift in terms of
the evolution and looking how the job rules shift almost with us but it really does provise a great amount of options
that are actually available and to as I said it’s for everyone or for anyone yes
I love the fact that you referred to as fun because it is a stereotype that
obviously it’s a it’s a misconception that the industry is not fun but from your career Journey it sounds like you
were given so much opportunity even from the start you know to progress and move to your your next company NeXT company
and I think that is something that only people in the industry seem to know isn’t it it’s that kind of from the
outside it’s seen as um yeah you know you know I think there is
a perception that you know anyone in technology is just kind of working in a silo in a in a dark room so coding and
developing and don’t get me wrong some people really generally enjoy that and do do it but there’s just such a host of
opportunities and roles and technologies that there’s something there for everyone I think that that’s really
important um in terms of when people are really starting to and women’s statistics look
at their careers and think about it just know do you know do your groundwork know that there is phenomenal sets of roles
out there and technologies that you can really get involved in it’s possibly not what you perceive yes and in terms of
um what changes and improvements do you think the industry need to make uh to make it more attractive to women you
mentioned there about you know flexibility being able to move around different roles
um are there anything else that you think the industry could do to make improvements for yeah I mean yeah so
ultimately you know the tech industry we’ve talked about this this but you know it did not attract in those High
percentages of women without adults it’s also remaining a very key focus on one of the reasons why I’m here with you
today also on where your passion comes from and many organizations continue to
aim for in order to really achieve parity but in terms of women in Tech you
know from my perspective that’s possibly an umbrella term and possibly there’s a
view of being able to put all those issues into one area and we could possibly do better at paraphrasing this
and perhaps changing the way we talk about it yeah so maybe it’s both women enabling technology or women redefining
Tech or it just as simple as technology for all and I already spoke about those
various career paths and alluded to how jobs have changed and evolved massively over the years and pretty much in line
with how we have seen technology involvement you saw Michael your path was very similar to that so for example
there is now a huge amount of opportunities available in data and this wasn’t necessarily true five years ago
and additionally we’re seeing more and more roles being created in order to
support AI in ml and that’s really what this recent tectonic shift so
Additionally you know some tech is no longer just coding and instead
it’s about law no cause and that’s beginning to lower the barrier for entry so these rules really partner closely
with business users to collaborate more effectively and the industry more more
energy and better descriptors into what tech can be to match those wealth of
opportunity that’s available out there today yes I know for the fact that you
mentioned code I mean you said you know you you learn um from from a young agent and and that was something that you
enjoyed I think it does turn a lot of people off if you’re not techy and you don’t understand it if you’re just your
mind doesn’t work in that way you think well I have to learn to code to go into Tech and that’s it and we speak to a lot
of um product managers on here who say I had no idea this role existed and that I
don’t need to code to be in Tech and that I just need to know about the product and the user experience you know
but that’s that’s again something that a lot of people don’t realize in Texas yeah and it’s interesting because you
know younger Generations are born into a world of tech and that’s really both
from home and from a school perspective and so young people are immersed really at a very early age in technology and in
fact it’s really second nature to them and it’s interesting because when I was flying home from holiday which I I did
last Friday I was standing in the security queue as you do looking around and um I looked and I saw about five
girls they were possibly the age of 10 or 11 and they were all together there was about two moms there with them and
they all had their heads down in their phone now I actually don’t think I possibly even had a calculator at that
age and the other interesting thing um that I found out lately is that and I
don’t know if everyone knows this and they find it amazing but the youngest IOS app developer was a girl called
Hannah Muhammad Rafiq and she was age nine they developed a storytelling app that
allows parents to record stories now you know I mean that’s incredibly inspiring
right yeah and so in order to get young women into technology we really need to
start sparking that Curiosity into platforms that we take for granted and
this technology involves to encourage them to really start thinking about maybe how the tech is designed developed
and even can be improved upon you know I mean henna is an inspiration for all
definitely I mean I think as well it helps when you know if if that young
girl had somebody in her life or an after-school club or something you know a teacher or a parent that really
inspired her to to go in that direction because I wanted to ask you a little bit about what education systems can do to
encourage more girls into stem um you know you yourself what encouraged you and you
were picking you know what subjects you wanted to do there must have been somebody that inspired you to think oh
yep computer systems is for me yeah I mean it’s interesting I I and you just kind of really raised a memory with me
that came up I remember having it classes in school and uh there was a computer room of about maybe five
probably of the biggest computers in the world that we’ve probably ever seen um and I remember we used to all get
really excited about the fact that we could go and use the computer room and see what we could start generating but
you know also you know organizations are doing an awful lot in really trying to
encourage more girls into stim and equally what they can do from an education perspective
I’ve worked education systems can do so you know I really want to just talk up a little bit about from a workday
perspective is this we give some insight into our focus in this area which ultimately impacts those education
systems and I know that many organizations have that that same similar Focus so our vision
is to make stem learning more accessible and shift perceptions about the role of
technology that can play to students in terms of their future career choices so
we have an education Outreach strategy that’s based around students at the core of our efforts with strong support
really provided for educators and parents to enable their students and our
goal is to make stem learning far more accessible for everyone and encourage that Curiosity from a really young age
and we engage proactively but Educators to empower them to support their students on their
stem Journeys by providing workshops and supporting you know their classroom materials and our 2024 Focus will expand
to incorporate parents and it’s how we can provide basic literacy to support and engage in a
really really meaningful way with their children as possibly you know where Hannah’s journey and inspiration started
to come from yeah so you know our new kind of that trifi stem primary program
with startup also but in collaboration with one of our universities here in Dublin that’s to deliver Hands-On
practical stim modules to over 600 children and that’s from fourth fifth and sixth class so really quite young
and our transition year work um experience program also kind of launched last February we’re really
committed to hosting a one-week in-house program for over 60 students every year
so our world of work program delivers mentoring to secondary schools and our
industry insights Workshop invites teachers and school principals into
workday to learn about the various career paths and key competencies and
skills that are really required to unlock those Pathways so overall I
really believe that Educators need to engage more collaboratively with industry to drive stem education forward
and there’s you know there really is an appetized at an industry level to affect change we really should take advantage
of this and try to align that kind of the trophic Helix of government academian industry and I even mentioned
parents to think more collectively in terms of how we can drive that meaning
for change yes I love the fact that obviously you focus on students but they’re also you
focus on parents and teachers because the influence that they can have on a
young child’s and career path is just you know the amount of people that I
speak to on here where they say oh you know it was a teacher who who mentioned something or
um it was a parent that worked in that area or they knew somebody in Tech and yeah it’s the it’s a to it just ensure
that they understand that the roles that are available um I mean I remember I I’ve told this
story before on the podcast but when I was at school I got told because I’m left-handed I’m probably creative I
should be a florist but that’s because my career advisor didn’t really know many career paths and you know they come
out with something very strange that you sort of think well you know they’ve ticked their box as a career advisor and that’s it but if the the people that are
around you don’t understand the roles that are available how can you you know pick those up and unless you attend a
careers fair and you wouldn’t do that until you know you started a university perhaps and by then you’ve probably
already you know been influenced by somebody else um so yeah brilliant that you know it’s not just the students that you focus on
um but that influences from from all around yeah um in terms of uh female Tech leaders
what what can they do to help uh Generations below them
well you know they can really help in many ways and that’s from mentoring in
order to provide guidance and support to overcome challenges really help navigate career choices to Advocate you for women
also when they’re not in the room kind of that sponsor role yeah they can also
they can open doors to meet and connect with women at different stages in their journey and this enables a forum to
share experiences and build up relationships and really again it’s about growing those connections right so
they can act as Role Models equally and this is really important by inspiring and motivating you know Generations
below them additional leads by breaking down barriers and they can do this right raise awareness and educate and that
ultimately will start Paving the way for more diverse and inclusive Industries so
you know role leaders and Technology are incredibly important to the Next Generation
yes definitely and it goes back as well to um that the phrase of you can’t be what
you can’t see um and just those sometimes the women in Tech they don’t quite realize they have
a great story to share is the other thing it’s like you know you have a Fab story you you came into the tech
industry and you know you’re you’re doing incredibly well and I don’t think um all women in Tech realize the value
of just sharing their story and and inspiring Generations below them
um let alone then going on to Mentor somebody else um and to you know ensure that you’re
you know not pulling up the ladder behind you I suppose um is the phrase
um but yes definitely I think there is um more that that uh female leaders um
can do and also on on more of the the more selfish side of that I suppose it
is good for your career as well to be seen as a spokesperson that’s you know helping the generation behind you
um and to to really put yourself out there and I had a great podcast with um a few ladies who are mentors and they
wanted to share actually what they get out of being mentors um and not just all about their mentees
but actually the value that has come from stepping forward to being a mentor you know it’s really improved um their
career path I totally agree um and you know what I I also kind of
want to make the remark is like try stopping me because this is so important and it’s interesting because when I
start to reflect on my own career you know I really realize that my sponsors and again they’re the people that spoke
to me when I wasn’t in the room they had a huge part to pay in really Lifting me up
and also in turn on no reciprocating that and have done for a number of years and doing the same for many Fantastic
women in technology I also do a lot of mentoring and I watch out for opportunities for my mentees and I
really want them to Excel and to some degree can also be about getting
comfortable with being uncomfortable and in my previous organization I was
responsible additional to my day job for the it graduate program and this really
was a great elevator to push graduates you know just out of uni off the ladder
and I now look back and I know many who started as that first graduate and
they’re now their managers their directors their senior directors and they’re even the vice presidents which
really does make me very proud and I’m still in contact with many we talk a fair bit and I’m still always there for
them but it’s I love to hear you know in terms of their progression and their next move equally in terms of their
Journey and I think it’s really important also I um I sponsor
um I was previously co-lead for this role but it’s I sponsor women at workday for Dublin so that really is about
fostering a global Community that’s open to all and we support and connect and we Empower women and other gender
minorities and any person who really values our community so we create a safe
space where everyone can share their stories and have an opportunity to learn and understand about their own bias and
behaviors and we do this through Open Spaces presentations and networking
which is important now we don’t have all the answers right but we’re always here to create that container to have those
discussions which will really then hopefully bring about a change
um I’m also a member of an external community of women in technology it’s called the T200 and their mission is to
Foster and celebrate and Advance women technology in Tech and this group of
women are phenomenal and there really are selfless and the mission is to lift
up the next woman so it’s been a fantastic Journey for me to be part of that group and then kind of more
recently I also took on a co-lead role in a community here in Ireland called
connecting women in Tech and I do that on behalf of workday and this is really a network of over 20 irish-based
technology companies and they with the shared mission is to attract and to retrain and really
promote women in the technology sector so in answer the question you know I’m
on my way out I was I suspect in the next decade but so important for me that
we have got these generations of young women behind me that I can always look back and say well you know look they
change the world and they change the world of tech yes I love that because I I wanted to ask you about elevating other women as
you progressed in your career and some of these things that you just mentioned there I’m assuming as you progressed in
your career you know they they are connections that you made and initiatives that you become part of throughout your career but you also
mentioned something that is you know super simple that people can start with and that is just name-dropping someone
and just sponsorship and just being an advocate for somebody that isn’t in the
room it’s just the easiest way to lift somebody and that isn’t even there and
as as you go obviously in your career as you’ve progressed you’ve now picked up you know great initiatives that you’re
working with um but that one simple thing that sponsorship can really help on it well hugely
we’re firm Believers here as I said that you can’t be what you can’t see um is a
phrase that we use often on this podcast um so who are your female role models in
Tech I’m first going to attribute that to all the women in workday who are phenomenal
and also you know it’s the cios the cto’s cycles cdos and they are of those
external communities that I’ve mentioned you know that T200 that so many people right across the
globe and in India versus Industries so I definitely attribute a lot of uh of in
terms of where my role model actually started to come from and continue those because actually that doesn’t stop for
me either yeah and women leaders in Tech and previous organization and in general you know women in Tech right way through
you know my own career journey and but to name a few um there is a lady
this is one of my very first jobs and her name is Brenda Johnson um and she was the um vice president for
I.T at a very large publishing house that I was working for and then there was a lady called Michelle Carroll and
also Maureen wedderburn and they were part of my GSK journey and then I joined
workday our first CIO was a lady called Diana McKenzie and also our second CIO
was a woman called Sherry Rhodes and additionally we got Carolyn O’Reilly
she’s the GM for analytics and we’re going to Andrea Roos who’s the senior vice president in our uh product
development and finally phenomenal lady called Chris Byrne who is our senior vice president for technology operations
and our Dublin side leader you know there were so many but what’s always taken about my career is I always watch
and I look for these role models and I take the best of what I think I can then
amplify you know through my journey my experiences and even my own personality
yes I I love that you just said that that you take parts from each because
you’re right Role Models change as well throughout your career I think when I was younger I didn’t look at you know
somebody that was vice president of a company and think that that is who I want to be you can’t always make that
that connection it’s too big of a leap at that time and you need somebody that’s at least middle management to
Aspire to be like um so it definitely changes throughout your career and I love that that you
said you take Parts because there are some wonderful ladies in Tech who I look
at and I think realistically I’m never gonna be like you but I I love parts of you know you
got a PhD or whatever it may be and I I love that you do that that’s not for me and I’m not ever gonna get there but you
can take parts of that woman’s passion and um and drive uh even though you know
you you probably won’t go on to be exactly like them um which is which is lovely to hear that
you you’ve taken that from all different all different places um you mentioned uh Role Models um in
Tech though have you had other Role Models I mean either they’re all models across
HR I’ve wrought models of CEOs so I you know I got role models in the media like
I I generally as I say it I can you know I I look um I notice and and you know I look at
those qualities and going okay you know what I’m gonna try and see if that works for me because sometimes you have to
change a passion equally right it’s not always easy you know in terms of being listened to or having an impact so
looking and and at these role models and taking what works for them and as I said
is trying to amplify that in terms of like you know in terms of your own professionalism and how you do it and
and it’s you know it it’s there’s a there’s a role model in nearly everyone and it’s just taken what you think is
going to work for you yeah but equally identify you know what what perhaps makes them successful or a person you
can look up to as well yeah did you did you realize that a point in your career as well that you
you’re probably starting to be seen as a role model when when when did that shift kind of happening but actually people
are going to be looking to me as a leader suddenly um that’s a great question I think I
recognize that in particular running the it graduate program many many years ago so I could I could tell you very quickly
you know that these young people were coming out of University um and I was managing this program into
some degree you know managing the beginning of their career path and very quickly I could see them coming
to me and you know either complimenting me on something ideas or equally question me in terms of well how do you
do that and what’s the best way that I can approach this and I think I recognize very quickly that I was I was
becoming a role model yes yes it’s a shift in mindset obviously
um we are almost out of time um but I just wanted to ask you do you have any advice for anyone who thinks uh who’s
who might be interested in your career in Tech is there anything you wish you’d been told yeah I’m going to leave this
maybe with a two or three points but the first one is we’ve talked about this is about growing those connections so I
always say and I even said it right during the lockdown of the pandemic nobody will ever say no to a cup of
coffee so it’s really important that you reach out and if you want to have a conversation with somebody you know they
may not necessarily see you to make the move but you certainly should be reaching out to them if you really want
to know more and having that connect those connections is a bit like having that address book of business friends
and you can call them up and you can call on them and they’re going to come in and out at various stages of your
career so I could have a connection for 20 years ago and and I’ve had this very recently actually
um it was from a previous job and someone reached out and said hi did you remember we worked together Back in X
and so and they’re the and that connection has now fired back up again and that’s almost like 20 years later
the second one is about having those great mentors so you know as I said I’ve
really had some great adventures right throughout my career but it is really important to identify and seek out
mentors who will guide you through the career stages and be honest with you that’s in such an incredible important
part of that dynamic between a mentor and a mentee and also it’s you know you
need to be a good listener and somebody who has gone before you and the third point I’d like to leave is
that join them be active with those internal and external communities that are out there for women in technology
like the one I’m in called the T200 because you never know when you’re going to need those connections but also these
women provide a wealth of knowledge and experience and you never even know you
know where they might provide that opportunity for the next job or the next Road so I think I’m going to leave us with
you know I’m gonna leave it with where I probably started this conversation and that’s you know just be curious take
calculated risks do not shy away from opportunities and that may you know some
of them may really seem ambitious but it’s so incredibly important to have that kind of that learning mindset and
you’re going to have a phenomenal career ahead of you in technology yes uh what a beautiful phrase to end it
on is it positive advice I’m saying it on there because we’re already out of time but thank you so much for coming on
and sharing your story today it’s been a pleasure you’re very welcome thank you very much for having me thank you and to
everybody listening as always thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time
