Recent research has shown that female leadership in tech is falling.
According to DDI’s 2023 Global Leadership Forecast, the percentage of women in tech leadership roles has fallen to 28%.
We’ve also seen high-profile female tech leaders stepping down including YouTube’s Susan Wojcicki and Meta’s Marne Levine.
So how can we encourage more women in tech into leadership positions? And what is it like to be a female leader in tech?
To help answer these questions and more, we’re chatting to Liat Barer, the VP Product at Odeeo, the global leader for in-app audio monetisation.
Odeeo is an audio ad platform connecting advertisers to the world’s 2.7B mobile gamers by amplifying the in-game experience with non-intrusive audio ads. While working at Odeeo, Liat has brought attention to the empowerment of women in a male-dominated industry and has also strived to become a mentor that pushes women to technical senior positions.
Being in the mobile advertising industry for over 12 years, Liat has a wealth of advice to offer from her experience in the field. Prior to working for Odeeo, Liat was with Israeli ad tech company StartApp where she pioneered the reinvention of mobile marketing. Her unique ‘customer-obsessed’ strategy is born from her past experience in the business side of StartApp, where she started as an intern before rising to VP Clients in just seven years. After her impressive work with StartApp, Liat went on to work as the Product Manager for Yahoo before joining Odeeo in 2021 where she oversees ‘all things product’.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in as always I am Katie batesman the content director at chican code and
today we are discussing how to make it as a senior female leader in Tech now
according to ddi’s 2023 Global Leadership forecast the percentage of women in Tech leadership roles has
fallen to 28 how can we encourage more women in Tech into leadership positions
and what is it like to be a leader in Tech to help me answer these questions and more I have the amazingly at barrier
the VP of products at Odo with me today welcome Lynette thank you thank you Kaylee thank you so
much for taking the time to come and have a chat with us today and we want to set the scene a little bit with
um some info about your background please how you got into Tech of course so I’ve actually gotten into Tech by
mistake by chance um I was actually studying psychology and business
um I was still a student and trying to sort of find myself and and understand like where I want to go
um so my first student job was actually by accident and an edtech company uh which I which I really loved
um and I I literally fell in love in the in the industry in the um how fast-paced
it is how interesting it is how much I can learn um from being a part of a tech company
um and I immediately sort of knew that this is what I wanted to do and this is what I wanted to pursue
um so that was actually my first job and I ended up staying there for seven years doing multiple positions uh you know
becoming a manager for the first time and the rest was uh history so I kind of
put my psychology studies behind even though it always is helpful with anything that you do especially in
leadership roles uh when you have to manage people that’s always a plus um but uh but yeah that was my journey
into Tech um I’ve actually started from the business side I was doing a customer
success and a little bit of sales I led some groups at multiple companies
that I was on and then during my time at the company I’ve decided that actually
my real passion and is is the product and I’ve had a chance to be a part of a
few projects where I was lucky enough to sort of lead and push the product side and that’s where I understood that this
is really my passion and I love being in involved in the tech itself and especially this great connection between
the business and the tech and and the rest is history I started my first
product position and a great company called startup and I moved there to
Yahoo I worked at Yahoo for a few years and now I’m here reading the product tutorial amazing and when you moved in
or when you fell in which I hit often I fell into Tech I’m one of those and I stayed
um but what did you think before before you fell in did you think it was techy did you did you think you had to be very
techy to to go into the tech industry whereas actually you probably were quite surprised when you especially moved over
to a product that don’t have to be technical that’s that’s an amazing question that’s actually
um a question that I really love because when I actually moved for the first time to a product manager position I took the
most techie role right I was the product manager of a server team like very very
hardcore maybe the most tech oriented team in the company and I have no computer science background I’ve never
studied I’ve never done a degree in computer science I may have studied that in high school but that’s more of you
know just the just the general background that’s just something that was interesting for me or maybe helped
me to learn how to think techie but I’m not coming from computer science and
sometimes when you imagine going into those Tech roles you think that you have to be super and very very techy you have
to know all the details and sometimes you do some some roles are very very technical
um but I’m a big believer in learning as we go I always said that at my first year in a real company right like on a
real job I’ve literally learned more than I did in my 12 years of study and
definitely more than my three years of degree like the the University degree because realize training is is the best
training and you learn so much from it and you can get techy if you have the passion for technology and this is
something that you want to learn then you can do it and you can also be very
successful at what you do and to lead very very technical teams um and you know to also get them to
learn a little more on the business side so yes I agree because I wanted to ask you
what do you think um is the key to success in the tech industry but actually um you just mentioned something so
important here it’s just constant learning and being able to to keep up with the pace and I think it’s not one
of those jobs is it where you just kind of you graduate you’re going to your job and you don’t learn anything new or you
know you might do some in-house training and another job and that’s it but the tech industry you really have to
constantly keep learnings you keep up with you know everything that is that is happening and a lot of jobs now that
existed you know even exist when a lot of us graduated so um you know it’s it’s I suppose that’s
that’s one of the keys to successes in in the industry completely agree completely agree I think that if you ask
me like the number one thing will be to be very very curious right like you have to have
the passion to learn all the time and to change your day-to-day like I always say
that what I love what I love about what I do is that if I look back a year ago things were so different and I had to
learn so much and I had to change so much of what I do um and I think that in that aspect we’re
we’re very very lucky we we live in a fast-pacing world right so um it’s it’s hard for me to think of a
situation where I work 30 years doing the same thing right like over and over again nothing much changes like you’re
you may be an expert in what you do um but for me that’s uh that’s just not
staff Pace enough and one of the things that I love most about the tech industry is how curious you have to be how much
you have to learn um how much you have to look for new information and to try and
um you know be out there and understand like what’s new in the world and how can you bring this into your company and I
believe that’s the key to succeed in this uh in this type of Industry yes yes definitely uh really does take a certain
personality type so to want to continually doesn’t I mean it’s not for everybody
that’s fair enough as you said it’s it’s it’s a very fast-paced and exciting place to be no no day
um it’s it’s the same do you find that in your in your role um that you know each day is actually very very different
for you so different so different every day I do something completely different my day is
composed by so many aspects I think that that’s one of the reasons that I fell in love with product management in general
because product management is such a Central role that you have to be sort of
like all over the place so there are some days where I’m only talking to my R
D team and the conversations are very techy and I’m trying to learn and I look into integration guides and docs and and
even go through code and just try to understand things that are going on and then at another day I can be in a
conference you know selling the product and talking you know with the business teams and understanding everything from
clients so I love the fact that this position is so versatile right you can
do anything um and and you can actually touch everything and make it work for the
company and by bringing solutions that work for both sides so yeah especially
in products so it’s always um uh the latest that I talk to on on here always say about working in product
that you think again they have that quote they have to be technical but actually you just have to really know
that product inside out and as you said you could find yourself show suddenly selling you know so you kind of you
can’t be that person that thinks I’m just going to be sitting right in lines of code not talking to anybody that is
not working in products so you found yourself you know selling having a go
touching upon everything exactly exactly and I’m also a big believer specifically that you know there are some product
roles that are maybe very technical that are more behind the scenes I’m a
personal big believer in the fact that if you don’t go there if you don’t go out there and you talk to clients and
you hear everything firsthand you hear the problems from the people that have the problems you can’t really solve the
problems um so I’m a firm believer in the fact that product people need to be on the
field talking to everyone going to conferences selling the product ourselves if we don’t we will probably
never really understand how difficult it is and what are the challenges that we need to solve yeah and completely lose
contact with the people that you’re making it for exactly um so today we’re talking a little bit
about um women in leadership um and um I wanted to start off asking you though how do you think the industry
how has it changed for women since you started in Tech
so wow a lot I feel old now but but yes a lot
um I would say that probably the first thing is the number of female role models that you can that are out there
right like it it really grew um and I really feel for me personally
that it is very inspiring and that’s uh like that’s a that’s a great momentum
that there is for women in the industry um so that will probably be the first thing that I think is has changed
um the second thing is is the community I think that one of the things that I
love most uh really and I feel it really recently in the past few years
um that the community of women women lifting women and women sort of wanting
to help other women in the tech industry um specifically in the edtech industry where I’m coming from this is this is a
very big thing like I’m a member of different groups um of women in leadership roles that are
sort of like pushing each other making introductions um inviting each other to different
events to different you know conferences podcasts you know things that you can learn from
um that I I really appreciate and I think that this is um one of the things that really Empower
us as a community like a minority that is not really a minority right
um but but still like making us sort of work for each other and help each other and I really see that lately in the
industry which I love yes and ladies that come into Tech the more that
are thinking helping pulling each other up the ladder and helping each other up um just remembering to look back behind
them um obviously uh helps everybody um I I agree with
now there are far more women um even on the ground when you go to shows and
conferences and I remember um when I started in Tech I go into big Tech conferences and especially in the
UK and a lot of people I mean a few times I got asked if I if I were lost
um I kind of looked so out of place uh seeing you know in a room full of 100 men and and then if things started to
change up funnily enough when I used to go to shows in the states that was very different and I found that there were lots of women kind of million around
Tech shows in the States but I found in the UK for a really long time that when you were out on the show floor you
looked very lost and you know I was asked and I said this on the podcast before um to go and get somebody a drink
because they thought I was the waitress um and you know it was exactly yeah
quite the moment that you just treasure yes yes played with me yes
um but yeah is that have you had that feeling at events before I think things are a lot better now when
I go and I think there’s women everywhere you know if there’s a cube in the toilet Suddenly at a conference Tech conference
I I definitely definitely feel that I think that um what I really feel the change right
like it’s it’s not uncommon now to go in a in a Tech conference and have a decent
percentage of women in the room um which is incredible I still think that we are we’re a part of the change
yeah we it’s not over right like the we are we’re still not in a in a place
where we can say okay I’m going to a conference and you know it’s a it’s a equal division between men and women and
everything looks fine like it’s still not the case you still feel like The Outsider a little bit at least I feel
that uh when I go into a room and you know it is what it is most of the people
especially when you go to you know meetings with uh with senior leadership it’s it’s usually really going to be men
in the room sometimes I’ll be the only women um and and that’s very challenging I was
I was just uh participating in a in a panel that was talking about uh female leadership actually
um and I was telling the story um about the fact that when I was in high school I went to uh I studied
computer science it was like kind of my major and our class was 40 people like
40 students and out of 40 students we were just for women like for girls
actually because we were pretty young but we were four girls right and that’s very intimidating I I I feel for myself
like for for the girl that I was going to a class with 36 boys and just four
girls um and and that’s always an intimidating feeling and something that we need to
sort of like overcome to make sure that we feel that we’re in our place
um and I’m I’m a firm believer in the fact that it as time goes by and this
you know equal there’s more equality and this Gap is being narrowed
um that will make things more natural for everyone and it will also be a great example for more more and more girls to
be a part of the industry because when you’re a minority in the room it’s
very hard for you to actually um to to be there to be present you always feel like you’re the outsider but
when you see that everyone’s like you and you know things are more um things are just more equal in terms
of the male female uh division then you you feel natural you can just feel that
you can be yourself you don’t have to think about that you can think only about work and what you do best so yes I
love that and what you just sit there on on just being able to be yourself at work which is so important obviously
being being authentic because I was going to ask you what what do you why do you think there are still so few females
in the tech sector but as you just mentioned there it’s probably a bit of both isn’t it it starts at education if
you find yourself there’s only four girls in a class of 40 it starts there but then also there are also challenges
once you get into Tech as well as in there and retaining women so um why why do you think there are still
so few females in the tech industry yeah um specifically leadership roles I think
that the the main like I can divide it maybe to two first I think there that
there’s just not enough Role Models right like most of the people that you see in senior leadership are men
um and again this is something I’m a firm believer in you know role modeling just based on being there and just being
present um and not necessarily by you know talking or that’s also important but but
I think that the more we women see more women in leadership positions it will
become more natural and I’m I really believe that you know if we do this podcast in 10 years uh the numbers will
be different and that makes me very happy because I do think that young you know girls or young women see now a lot
more role models that they can look up to and they can feel this is something that I can do so that would probably be
the first um I think that’s specifically for senior leadership
um there are there are also still a lot of uh differences between men and women in terms of you know how they divide
between themselves the work and personal life kind of balance
um I think that until we solve the inherent belief that women are the let’s
say primary um responsible um parents right uh and they are the
natural person to go to sort of turn to uh when it comes to kids I was literally
today talking to someone here and I was saying that my son’s um kindergarten
teacher is always calling me she’s always calling me she’s never calling my husband and you know that’s fine I can
juggle I can do everything I can work and I can be in senior leadership and also have a child and also be a great
mom and that’s fine but I do understand the challenge right like when everything is is on your shoulders as women it’s
very very hard to actually invest the time and to um and and to be in senior leadership
like you become afraid like I can’t do everything so you have to have a great
support system you have to have a great partner you have to live a very equal
life that really supports and respects uh the men and also the women
um and you know just allow you to take the opportunities that you can take and uh I was very fortunate to be able to do
that um and I hope that this is something that will also um you know that will be the the natural
thing that will be what happens for everyone um soon enough so
that will help people reach more leadership roles definitely because it I mean the number of women in leadership
roles is obviously falling and I was going to ask you a little bit about um why you think that is and and you
just cover it perfectly there I mean the the two main things you know Role Models it’s one is somebody to
I just even you know Envision moving into that role um if there’s nobody there that you can
really relate to and that’s that’s obviously uh going to cause some problems and then obviously what you
said about um being the main um you know caring for children for instance or whoever you may
be caring for and and you’re absolutely right we we’ve come a long way I know a lot of senior ladies in Tech who say
um you know they’re uh they reverse revolve the roles of husbands whilst they were in senior leadership
um and there are lots of people that are lucky enough to to give that a go and but you know it’s still we’ve still got
a really um long way to go unfortunately you know she’s a long way everything can be on on
the woman’s shoulders um and um yeah we are getting I think as well
though that comes from the top down doesn’t it if you don’t see for instance if you do have all male leadership you
want to see them leaving to go and collect the children them taking a call
from the nursery and then it trickles down to the company and the culture and everything exactly exactly and you want
to see women in senior leadership that can you know have babies they can get
pregnant they can go on maternity leave they can go back they can still be what they were they can still be the
professionals that they are even though biologically we’re the ones that are you
know giving birth that’s totally fine um that’s also a gift uh but you you
know this is something that I feel that a lot of times is holding us back just because it’s you know it’s time
consuming and this is something that sometimes when you don’t see examples of women doing that you know going on
maternity leave going back to their senior positions then you don’t believe sometimes that you can do it as well so
you maybe don’t even aspire to be at that position um so I’m a big believer in role models
it doesn’t it doesn’t need to be like a formal Mentor but sometimes just seeing someone in that position can just make
you feel like you know I can do this myself yes yes because I mean what do you think should be done
to increase the number of women in leadership roles and what you just said there just seeing somebody a woman in an
electric role go off on some maternity leave and come back and find everything was fine you know nothing bad happened
and I’ve spoken to ladies who went on maternity leave come back and received a promotion and had no idea that was going
to happen but they were a great company they felt more loyal to start that company I mean there are more things
that companies can be doing aren’t there to encourage uh to increase the number of women into leadership roles
definitely I think that besides the fact that there is a great role model maybe
in the company itself to show other women that they can it is also a very like it is also very important to to
talk about it right like to open things I think my best example is that
sometimes when you sit on a table of you know the the leadership like the
leadership of the company it will usually be mostly men right and I see that myself like I’m a single like I’m
the only women in a um in a table of of men currently in the leadership of the company hopefully that will maybe change
at some point uh but currently this is the case um and I think that for me it’s very
important to also advocate for things that are important for us and that are that are maybe making women feel
uncomfortable maybe these are things that the men in the leadership position need to like they need to pay attention
to and they won’t think about them themselves I can really see it and I’m I’m really in that aspect I I work at
such a great company with such great leaders like men leaders that really care about this um topic and sometimes I
really see their eyes open like literally I see their eyes open when I bring to the table things that are
related to how you address women like how you talk to them or things that you
say that might sound I don’t want to say not appropriate but like sometimes they make you feel
smaller or things that you should pay attention because they can be sensitive or things that have to do with maternity
leave and how to treat that in the company these are things that I believe that um the the women voice in the company is
is is critical is critical right like it’s so important to have
um someone sort of like representing um women and um even if I’m a minority
within the leadership of the company um I still feel that I have a voice and
I can I can bring the voice of other women as well um and that’s great and I think that
this is this is something that other companies can do to sort of open this conversation
um and to make sure that they let the women be heard in that aspect yes yeah
and that you’re there at the top as a role model for other people to see you
um you know using your voice and um sharing um your knowledge obviously in a
room um occasionally full of uh lots of other men um but women they’re not the only
um underrepresented group in Tech what can be done to make Tech more diverse across
race class and gender obviously spoken about gender a bit but there are other
things that need to be improved as well yeah I completely agree and I think that just like I said about gender that
really that approach takes for any other um underpresented group right or we can
call it a minority like this as long as we are aware of that as long as this is
something that the company sets as a goal right to make sure that the company is diverse that it has representation
that we are going towards um hiring people from you know all the
types of groups that we have in the in society um that will just make us a better
company right like because we eventually we’re selling products that want to reach people and if you want to reach
people you you want to reach everyone um and what better way to learn what is
the best way to approach everyone than to have everyone right around you you don’t want to be a company that is very
you know I don’t know not diverse like a company that that doesn’t have all these voices
around um and I feel that PR those embarrassing PR moments as well where it’s kind of
something went out and somebody said how did nobody spot that was because our team wasn’t diverse enough to pick it up
that’s fine yeah that’s also yeah that’s also true like we we definitely need to
take that under consideration this is something that needs to be spoken in manager meeting with senior leadership
um to sort of not ignore it I feel that once this is spoken this is something that is really out there and I really
feel that as like an advocate for women in my company I feel that once this is this is spoken this is out there we are
you know actually making moves towards it that alone um and that awareness just you know
makes it happen makes the company just be um more like leaning in towards
um the right hiring so yes definitely do you think um it’s a
bias problem and and if so how can we challenge these biases
I definitely think that it is also a biased problem we can’t run away from it bias is is something that was already
was always there and it’s probably here to stay at least uh at least for the
short term um and I think that foreign we always need to challenge those biases
right I feel that like I’m a sometimes it’s actually uh it’s actually
very annoying right like you have to always prove um that you’re not that biased right
like that you’re not that you’re not that um and that takes a lot of uh a lot of
energy right like for women I feel that sometimes you have to to work in not being like not falling into the bias so
so so that’s something that is very challenging and I think that it’s also a matter of awareness
um this is something that like the more women we have the more conversations we also have about this uh bringing bias
into awareness um is something that can really help us as a society in general but also like as
a company uh to try to avoid it and to try not to behave based on that bias
um so yeah it’s it was always there it’s probably here to stay but let’s make
sure we minimize it yes I think do you think though AI plays a role in
eradicating these biases foreign
exactly exactly that’s a great point and I’ve recently read an article about this I think it was like Harvard Review or I
can’t remember where I I read the article but um it’s it’s a very interesting point
the fact that like AI it’s you know it’s made by by humans right So eventually
um it learns what we are and it embodies that um so if there are biases in the in the
in the society there will be biases in Ai and I think that this is also something that we need to be very aware
of like as maybe like teams that are creating AI models that are using it
um in different companies in various ways that you can use biased that you can use AI today
um to sort of make sure that you take this under consideration that you avoid
using biased categories biased wordings
um in your AI models to make sure that this is something thing that um you know you’re not making the problem even worse
by you know maybe mistakenly and relying on an AI tool that has biased just
embedded um so that’s also a matter of of awareness I can’t say that I’m an expert
in AI uh but I I do think that you know this is a tool that can potentially change the world so uh we need to make
sure that this world has changed for the better yes exactly I love that for the
better yes not not the worst obviously um that it’s going to be a good tool
um to eradicate those biases in terms of um male leaders what can our leaders do
to become better allies do you think listen they should definitely just
listen um they they work with a lot of women they have women colleagues they have
everyone around them I think that it should be it should be very they should be very
open to listening and to understanding the problems to trying to be open to the
fact that I can give you an example when I talk about the fact that sometimes it’s very
hard for me to walk into a room um that has you know all men and I’m the only leader that is that is female
um I can really see and I’ve had this conversation with my with my fellow men leaders they were very surprised that I
said that because they were like well you’re so confident and you know it doesn’t seem like you know it’s
bothering you um which is you know maybe true on the outside like I don’t let it show I don’t
let it affect me I’m I’m I’m yes I’m a very confident person I have a lot of
experience so I kind of learned how to sort of hide that um but it’s still there like it is still
a thing and this is still something that is in the back of my head um that I sometimes think about
um so I think that only like even by the fact that I tell them this fact right
like and that I can open their eyes to the fact that sometimes it’s very challenging to be
the only female in the room um that on its own is very helpful
um and and I think that the more men are more open to listen to those challenges
and don’t sort of like take for granted that you know women can do everything come on like you you can be leaders you
can be managers you can be whatever you want sometimes it’s very hard and sometimes there are challenges that you
need to be a part of like you need to be a part of of the force that pushes us you know
forward um and not just assuming that everything is very very easy
um so and that you know it’s just a conversation that ladies have and that’s
it and to and you’re right you know listening and getting involved I had a
lady um who I was speaking to recently and we’re talking about male allies and um I
said something like oh yes so and so is the male Ally because he has a daughter and I said she her eyes rolled and she
said of course you know and she’s like the only male allies that she had
experienced were those that had young daughters and they wanted to do something and I thought that’s a good
thing though that men are listening and men are on board um but she kind of saw it as it’s still
a conversation that only ladies have and unless you know a man has had a daughter
and then suddenly he gets involved in the conversation it it should just be you know part of the culture of the
company and that you know that it’s okay to voice certain things and that men are
part of that conversation um as well which I think we are getting better at that as you said you know your
own company and you felt comfortable to to voice um certain things and things are getting
better um we still have a way to go definitely definitely for sure
but I completely agree with you yeah advice would you pass on to other women to help them progress in in the tech
industry so anything you wish someone had told you
interesting question um I think maybe my best advice will be
to speak up will be to actually make your voice heard about everything I
think that sometimes we fall into our own bias of
um you know if we think something is wrong or if we think something not even like not wrong I mean in like there’s a
bias here right like even professionally like if you think something can work differently if you think that you know
you know something better um sometimes I feel that women and that’s not only me feeling right like
that’s I think scientifically proven um that sometimes women are afraid to to
be very assertive um because they are afraid to be you know uh they’re afraid to sort of
come out as like the bad person so they kind of trying to be very nice to
everyone and I’m not saying you shouldn’t be nice you should always be nice um that resonates and that’s a great
thing to be but still you have to speak up you don’t have to be like I I would advise not to be afraid to say what you
have to say um and to be confident and to to speak up to really you know be professional
Don’t Be Afraid how it sounds and you know to who it sounds
um you know something exactly exactly I’m just mentioning it makes me feel
uncomfortable and that they had no idea you know it’s kind of sometimes people aren’t mind readers perhaps if I don’t
voice you know even that that that point how are they exactly exactly exactly and
also like in professional things right like don’t be afraid if you know something if you are the person to go to
um you know if you’re the professional leader in everything that has to do on this subject and you have your opinion
speak up you know make it heard um and and this is something that I think that it was it’s it’s a lesson
that I’ve learned over the years uh to make sure that my voice is always heard
um that I never keep quiet even if I think um that maybe you know at the back of my
head I think that it may you know not be the nicest things sometimes it’s more important to be professional and than to
always be nice um so this is a kind of a bias or something that I’m trying myself not to
fall into um so that will be my best advice yeah yeah I love that you’ve mentioned Role
Models a little bit throughout this as well do you happen anymore models yourself that you particularly admire
okay professionally at home so many so many I’ve had the I had I was
very lucky to also be raised by you know a mom that was you know always a career
woman um she was a great mom but she was also a great career woman so she she had she
had a great career and I’ve learned a lot by watching her and seeing her um lead and you know be what she is
um I’ve also had a great Fortune to be um to have role models that were in my
work environment um to have leaders that are females at
my first company that I worked for there was a female cro um which I completely looked up to
um and you know she she was the one that I wanted to be you know when I first started my career
um and that’s really um that’s really a great example and as I said like it doesn’t necessarily have
to be like an official Mentor that you have sometimes it’s even by just watching them and knowing that you can
do this um that’s that’s by its own like it’s it’s enough
um so definitely a lot of role models in my life did that help you as well
um find your leadership style because some some ladies I’ve I’ve spoken to on here they say if you’ve only got male
role models you tend to think that that leadership style was correct and you might come across a slightly masculine
in your leadership style when actually you it’s your advantage to be yourself
and be feminine and and you know if you are feminine and to bring that into your leadership style and to find you know
your authentic self instead of I definitely yeah yeah I completely agree
with that point like when you’re a young manager you always try to like shape
your own you know management style and Leadership leadership style and and that’s true if you only see male role
models then you know you tend to think that you know that’s the way to manage but that’s not necessarily true I think
that one of the biggest advantages women bring into management and into leadership is the EQ right like
everything that has to do with bringing the emotions and understanding people not that I said that men don’t but I
think that you know sometimes as women we tend to do that more and I think that I definitely feel more comfortable in my
leadership style and in the fact that I’m a people’s person and that my team is always very very important to me
um that has a lot to do with the fact that I’ve seen great women in leadership
positions um and they were leading in the same way uh but they were also you know
the most amazing professional people that I could look up to and say you know I can I can be this and that I don’t
have to be just one or the other so yes I love that you don’t have to pick and choose I’m we’re almost out of time but
I have one final question do you have any final career tips or advice for our listeners
uh wow don’t be afraid to make changes don’t be afraid to follow what you love
I remember myself making the very hard decision to move from the business area to the product area even though I had no
technical background and even though I was already in leadership positions in the sales and and customer success part
um you know teams um and to start again in product was uh
you know it was basically to say you know I I want to do it all over again I want to sort of like rebuild my career
um and I’m very very grateful and happy that I’ve done that because that was my
real passion um and I was able to reach you know other leadership roles in that
um in that position and and you know to really take product to be my career
um so I would say that that is my best tip don’t be afraid to follow your heart and to make changes and to follow what
you love amazing that is lovely positive advice um on today because we are already out
of time I can keep chatting to you for another um four hours probably on this topic
um but we are already out of time Leah thank you so much for joining us today um it’s been a pleasure today with you
it was a pleasure for me as well thank you very much thank you to everybody listening as always thank you for
joining us and we hope to see you again next time
