You’ve finished your degree, decided on your career path and are ready to find the perfect role in the tech industry! But where to start? And what will really make you stand out from the crowd?
Donna Litt, Co-Founder and COO at Uvaro, is here to help! In this episode, we delve into why a tech career is so exciting and all it offers, how to really make your CV shine, the skills you need to brush up on, and interview tips – plus much more.
Donna is Co-Founder and COO at Uvaro. As a dynamic and analytical leader, she has owned a wide array of functions – from customer development and retention, to recruiting and compliance. Donna is an author and STEAM evangelist with today’s youth. She invests in helping women educated in non-technology related fields find success in Canada’s growing ICT sector.
hello everyone and thank you for tuning
in again I am Katie Bateman the content
director at chican code and today we’re
going to be discussing how to get
started in a career in Tech in this
episode we’re going to delve into why
Tech is a great career why it’s so
exciting what it offers
um how to really make your CV Shine the
skills you need to brush up on interview
tips and much more so thankfully I have
the wonderful Donna lit co-founder and
CEO at uvaro here to help me today
um welcome Donna thank you for joining
us thank you so much for having me I
feel very welcomed
I’m great thank you for for coming along
today we have so much to to get through
um and and chat about but before we get
started we’d love to hear a little bit
about your background if you can share
that first place
yeah absolutely so I began my
professional career in non-profit
fundraising and Archeology if you can
believe it and yeah yeah I know I
haven’t heard that one before yeah never
in a million years did I think I would
go from hanging out in garbage piles
that were old and full of Bones to now
being in in Tech but uh here here I am
and it turns out there’s a number of
very cross functional skills that come
from that program so I was able to Pivot
my education thankfully and perspective
into kind of the big scary world of tech
and uh it just so happens that my
Humanities lens was very novel and much
appreciated just at the the time of
making that transition so I’ve stuck
around and have been making my my career
and and making my way forward there ever
since I first transitioned into Tech it
was back in 2011 and what I was building
at the time was actually an HR software
so it was called tribe HR that was the
company that I had first joined as their
very first customer expert boots on the
ground helping HR professionals
essentially manage their their own
Workforce all of their employees with
their HR information system that was the
tech that I’d originally gotten started
it and it was that experience that
really helped me understand just how
critical it is to listen in this
ecosystem in this industry and I know
we’ll talk a lot about skills but
listening is absolutely at its core and
that’s in large part because people have
all of their motivations they need to
accomplish all of their goals and they
ask for many things and when you can
listen to their intent and you listen to
what it is that they’re trying to
accomplish you become their support in
that process and you help them achieve
those objectives and so it was working
with HR professionals who I love dearly
and helping them accomplish their goals
which are all about creating an
incredible workplace culture
transparency you know implementing peer
and public recognition so that employees
can do better work it was helping them
kind of create these worlds for
themselves in their own companies that
helped me understand just the importance
of the customer and the customer voice
and so fast forward to 2017 we sold that
company to a company called netsuite
which was unpurchased by another company
called Oracle and so the founding team
when we we you know had kind of seen
that journey through got back together
and said what tools can we create today
what can we do now to help again Empower
individuals in the workplace to to do
their jobs better and create a sense of
autonomy and have more control over
their outcomes and we did not start with
uvaro by any stretch we actually like
any good Tech founding team started with
AI as one does and so built a chat bot
that ultimately helped sales teams and
it was listening to the customers and
pulling those those threads the same as
we did before that ultimately got us to
uvaro today which is now uh we provide a
membership to professionals who are
looking to grow their careers in the
tech industry and so we’ve got about 70
employees hundreds of members who we
support in everything from getting their
very first job to their first salary
increase increase to their first
promotion to their second job and their
third job Etc that’s that’s what we do
today
amazing and I is there anything that you
learn um along the way in terms of being
being an entrepreneur and and you know
you didn’t know any transition
um over to the tech industry you know
you also launched a business so is there
anything you know that you learned along
the way that you you wish somebody had
told you
yes I did not fully appreciate just how
much change is happening in Tech right
now I know that in full transparency I
got pulled into the industry by an
advocate and an ally my own brother
who’s a software engineer from the
University of Waterloo he studied
Computer Engineering there and he’d
always you know been on about the
internet and I was like oh no I’m gonna
go dig in the dirt and uh eventually
eventually I I said okay you know you’re
he there’s personal motivations and
everything like that involved but I
ended up transitioning into the industry
and right away I was just astonished by
the pace of change and I think more
importantly how much has yet to be
defined and so when I speak with
individuals about things that they might
not know is one absolutely the change
that you’re experiencing as soon as you
begin to you know do research or step
your toe into the industry that is
normal and it is scary but it is also
opportunity because never before have we
been able to make as much of an impact
and I say we I mean in terms of gender
diversity and helping to drive these
agendas forward because there’s so much
that’s ill-defined and the fear is that
if we do not participate in driving
forward those agendas while it is so you
know amorphous and it’s in a state of
change we will miss out on that
opportunity and the future that will get
created we’ll continue to exclude
critical voices and so certainly I think
just the state of change is something
that I’ve learned and become accustomed
to but had no idea getting in yeah yeah
was that a draw
um you know it now you’re in would you
say that actually that’s you know a good
draw for people to come to the Second
Street that there there is always change
and the you know you you don’t have to
sit in your career and feel like um you
know you won’t move forward you you
always have to have that mindset of of
learning I suppose
yeah you know I love the question and
you know we’re always talking internally
about change management and so I’m
laughing as well because it’s it’s so
topical I think it’s it’s a bit of a
double-edged sword in some cases change
is the only constant but it is also
terrifying and so there is absolutely I
think it’s it’s attractive for people to
know that there’s upward Mobility to
know that you know there’s an
opportunity to drive forward some of the
values that you might represent to be
able to help support you know the the
future of work and help shape it in a
way that is more productive and
inclusive for populations and
individuals in the future I think that’s
all so exciting and then there’s the
personal gains that come with it of you
know seeing those salary increases and
overcoming those challenges but I think
on the flip side becoming comfortable
operating in such a state of change is
is a very real Challenge and everybody
comes that comes forward with their own
relationship to technology and change
and it’s it’s colorful right we don’t
all process it the same way and so you
might first be attracted to the industry
because it’s changing State and and in
practice the way it feels might be quite
quite problematic and intimidating for
somebody who has yet to develop the
tools to adapt and so I’d say yes
absolutely it’s attractive and it should
of course be because that’s where
opportunity is however it should be
thought about uh with with prudence and
recognizing your own current state and
developing tools to to help ensure that
you’re resilient in that space yeah and
I think as well those of us that work in
the industry we know
um the tools and we know what is
exciting about the industry I hear a lot
and people that have transitioned into
Tech they tend to say
um the money actually was a really big
draw and there are good salaries
um within the tech industry
um and and lots of other things like you
don’t have to
um be present in an office you know
that’s not always
um the case with with lots of Industries
so you can be flexible in technology
um and that you get to work across lots
lots of different sectors and that you
never even would have imagined
um is there you know
anything else I mean you mentioned the
change obviously
um and the fast pace of the industry was
was there anything at the time where
where you thought you know the tech
sector is definitely the the one for me
yeah I think also the openness and
underlying idealism that exists I think
perhaps you know not I would be
surprised if they were unrelated
um but because there is a state of
change it attracts individuals who are
looking to create a better future and
that just has a sense of idealism and
optimism to it that that doesn’t always
exist in all Industries and so for me I
think it was you know that part was very
exciting the change aspect but then it
was also recognizing that you know these
people who are innovating the space they
may not have all the answers but
absolutely they have the ideals and the
and the desire to to create a future
that that is better and more inclusive
and and it’s it doesn’t always you know
translate the into the best possible
version of that but that just means that
there’s opportunity for more voices to
help make sure that it that it lands
that all of these outcomes land the way
the way that we want them to and so I
think that underlying optimism uh that
exists Within the ecosystem is very
attractive and certainly something that
that pulled me here as well
so work in Tech you have to be technical
you have to you know been for a computer
science degree
um obviously you had a lot of training
but in a completely different area
um so you know was that a turn up Did
you sort of think oh you know I’m not
going to be welcomed in the industry
because I’m not technical
yeah you know I never actually
encountered so short answer would be no
I did not have that preconceived notion
I think it’s probably because I had that
family member who was saying you should
come be here right so I had the the
education the opportunity to know that
there were so many roles in a technology
company that do not require that
expertise however I didn’t fully
appreciate what that would be like and
how I would feel perhaps excluded by not
having those skills until I joined
because there are very specific ways of
problem solving that Engineers take that
people that are mass-minded or science
educated there are very clear ways of
doing work and arriving at a solution
that have rules and systems and those
same rules and systems aren’t
necessarily applied or talked about in
arts-based education there’s different
rules there’s different ways of solving
problems and when you are a minority in
that space where everybody’s following
the same set of rules using the same
language knowing how the equations work
you’re a minority who does not have that
information it takes a long time to one
see it for what it is and then two
figure out how to navigate it and then
help under others see it as well because
it’s not one-sided it needs to take all
parties to to acknowledge that that’s a
real thing and then figure out the best
way to establish shared language after
that and so going into it I did not but
perhaps naively when I got into it and I
was like oh my gosh what is this why am
I why am I so frustrated all the time no
one’s listening to me
um I think I I learned then the benefit
that would have come had I had technical
skills But ultimately no no regrets no
regrets yeah yeah and you mentioned
technical skills there but they also you
know we talked right at the beginning
about
um you know making sure that you can go
into an environment um where you’re used
to you know a fast pace for instance in
technology are there any other skills um
you think that are needed for a Tech
Career obviously lots of soft skills um
in addition to to technical skills
yeah I think
um you know joining this industry
requires that you practice a lot of
agency uh and so that’s autonomy that’s
decision making that’s taking in a lot
of different instructions and data
points and synthesizing it and making a
good choice and that’s not often talked
about uh and so the skills that kind of
feed into that ability or everything
from listening to critical thinking
empathy curiosity having that sense of
ownership those are all such critical
skills and that’s really so that you
know you don’t just get that first job
it’s so that you then keep that job and
then grow into the next role and
continue to see that growth and
development because so critically those
those soft skills right now are are
needed to be able to shape environments
where more people can can participate
um I always think you pick up the best
skills within startups as well and
having worked at a couple myself I think
having that opportunity when I was
younger to to work at startups I don’t
think I would have moved forward as
quickly
um as I did if you know if I’d gone into
a corporate and to be honest once you’ve
been in a few startups and then you find
yourself in a corporate you quickly
think this isn’t for me I love that
anecdote I went through that exact same
Journey I’d love to hear hear your story
the uh when we sold our business I very
quickly learned that I loved that
autonomy and the ability to to make
change happen and as soon as you join a
big company which we did through the
acquisition it was just different skills
that I that I was much less interested
in spending time on uh than than the
ability to to move at the pace that I
wanted so I ended up leaving 12 months
to the day much to my my brother’s uh
sugar and I don’t think he saw it coming
which is something that that we talk
about from time to time but uh yeah that
was uh that I agree I agree with your
comments yeah everything
um it slows doesn’t it once once you’ve
been
um a corporate in the fast pace of a
startup is is really good fun because
there’s nobody no it’s a you know only
nobody in your way there’s there’s
nobody to do that job so you you find
yourself doing lots of different jobs
because there’s nobody else there to do
it and we need to get moving
um which is just a super fun to to be
part of
um and yeah I absolutely loved being
um part of a startup and finding that
the right startup for you
um is really good fun I think a lot a
lot of Our Ladies as well um in the
majority of our community are first and
second job as
um and I think when you’re young you
don’t always think oh you know I’ll join
a startup
um or it can be
um uh it can be quite worrying to join
you know a company that perhaps um
doesn’t have a lot of stability
um at first so um you know hopefully a
lot of our second jobs have sort of
figured out
um through their networks as they grow
their networks actually that you your
career
um will expand a lot faster
um and accelerate
um much faster than if you you know get
lost within a big company
um
how can people really make their CVS
stand out to two potential employers is
there anything that you’ve learned along
the way
yeah you know we we certainly speak
about a lot of this a lot with our with
our membership base uh first and
foremost if you’re not thinking about
how you’re using video you absolutely
should consider it it uh is it’s such a
unique way to personalize your Outreach
and there’s you know a billion free
tools out there that can really help you
uh create your own video create a
personalized message and all of a sudden
just demonstrate your whole Suite of
skills so quickly and stand out from
from the group so that’s absolutely one
tip you know there’s also our Alex
Sparks if you ever if you ever speak
with her she’s our head of career career
services and coaching at uvaro and
she’ll say clear concise engaging so
whatever you put out there make sure
it’s clear concise and engaging and
that’s absolutely true but I think that
the two most kind of behind the scenes
tips that I would recommend I’d say
those are those are kind of low-hanging
fruit uh behind the scenes tips number
one before submitting any application
understand your motivations why you
believe that you and this company are
aligned is so important because one it
forces the hard work of actually
reflecting and thinking through and
doing the research but then two it shows
up in your language and the way that you
communicate so that’s that’s so
critically important that’s the hard and
visible work that we all we all need to
do but never spend enough time on and
then uh if you can this kind of the
second behind the scenes tip so to speak
when you’re speaking whether that’s
submitting your CV when you’re or it’s
approaching a recruiter whichever during
the process being able to align your
skills to the company’s goals and
objectives and their customer base
do the research to determine who they’re
serving what it is they’re trying to
help their customers with and when you
do design your CV and speak to the the
recruiters and everything during the
interview process lining up your skills
with how you can help the company
achieve its objectives for the customer
is so valuable and it very quickly shows
them that you are tactically aligned and
capable of being able to to do that and
so it can serve you very well when
applying
yeah it’s interesting you you talk about
a video there which is a a brilliant
idea I think we get hung up sometimes
don’t we on we hear about red flags
things that you shouldn’t do on your CV
obviously spelling mistakes you know
you’ve got all of those things on your
mind is mostly be too long
um but perhaps we don’t focus enough on
how to showcase our personalities not
just our skills and qualifications
um and a video you know in this day and
age where we’re always sharing something
like that across social media why why
wouldn’t we
um think of sharing that in our job
application as well that’s uh that’s a
great idea yeah yeah absolutely it’s
also scalable because if you create a
really quick video about yourself that
speaks to those motivations then you
don’t need to go out of your way to to
personalize it too much every time you
can personalize the email copy but you
know that video have it be just speaking
about your motivations and and you know
what it is you’re looking to accomplish
then you can use it in multiple places
what’s your why that’s what we talk
about being able to succinctly say your
why and that’s very powerful yeah and
actually that leads me on to my next
question about experience because if you
if you don’t have the necessary
experience just submitting actually a
video to show your personality and and
what you’re like it would really help
your application just to show that you
you know you might be quite warm-natured
you you might be very easy to get on
with which sometimes is so much more
important than whether or not you have
the necessary skills
um so you know in terms of experience
you came from a different industry
um and and moved into Tech this
experience necessary
um and and how do you gain it if you if
you don’t have any
yeah you know it’s it’s a really great
question and it there’s the the answer
is varied because there’s so many
different roles within the tech um
ecosystem but I mean broadly speaking if
you take a skills based approach so what
are the skills that you’ve gained then
and you apply with that in mind then
experience is is much less necessary and
not necessary in a lot of cases and so
what that just means is digging deep and
identifying what experience you actually
have and so oftentimes you know we’ll
work with newcomers and they don’t have
that you know Canadian work experience
and so they’re blocked in a lot of
different ways and so what’s what’s
important in those scenarios is to go
back and say okay well what experience
are you bringing to the table and work
through and identify what skills it is
that you developed along the way
communication for example Discovery
asking questions leading with empathy
these might be skills that you gained in
a different country in a different
industry but then tailoring your resume
and your application to Showcase those
skills is how you can overcome those
objections because you’re always going
to run into the the poor recruiting
practice of just not accepting an
application because there’s not that
related experience but the reality is
the workplace is changing recognizing
that those skills do matter more and so
leading with those skills is how you can
overcome the experience uh question or
challenge because you don’t you don’t
need a job in Tech to be able to break
into the tech industry
yeah yeah absolutely and say your
application
um does get through to a short list and
you make an interview
um do you have any tips for for
interviewing or or anything that that
you’ve learned that you’ve fought I wish
wish I hadn’t done that you know it
takes a few interviews doesn’t it you
need a few practice guys yeah well I
think that’s a fair so I I do have tips
but I love what you just said because it
takes practice which means interview as
much and as frequently as you can people
get discouraged when they send out one
two three five applications and they
don’t they don’t get the response back
we have people sending out hundreds and
that’s not to say that hundreds is
necessary but recognizing that it is a
pipeline it is your first sales job you
know to sell yourself and so you have to
run the numbers uh so I think your
comment around practice is is King I
think that that really resonates um
because you’re absolutely right that
helps a lot but I think you know outside
of that doing your research before you
have a conversation even if it’s just a
little bit so that you can make that
conversation relevant the minute the
conversation Strays into that realm of
irrelevancy you lose the attention you
lose the opportunity to to Showcase
yourself in the best light so I think
that’s so so important and then the
second is to really be intentional about
the questions that you ask so if you
adopt the perspective of what questions
do I need answers for me to succeed in
this role if you can adopt that
perspective and then develop your list
of questions prioritize that list of
questions and then be intentional about
asking them then you will stand out from
other candidates
yeah yeah and and you’re absolutely
right
um
um bringing up there the the practice I
think as well it’s
especially when you’re younger and you
start interviewing
um after you’ve graduated I think it’s
learning
um not to take it to heart when you
don’t get the role or you don’t make it
to the next round and because you’re
right it is it does take practice and I
think it’s just taking on board that you
learn from every interview
um even if you think maybe I shouldn’t
have said that
um then you obviously don’t say in your
next one and a lot of companies
unfortunately don’t always give feedback
either
um so you’re sort of going into the next
one blindly
um I think once you start relaxing a
little bit more
um and and it’s more you know becomes a
chat with
um the interviewer as well about
um what you can learn from the company
and whether it’s right for you as well
um which as a graduate is very hard
because you’re sort of thinking I just
want to get on the first team that will
take me but you’re not always thinking
you know is this right for me and in the
long term would I stay here for several
years instead of thinking actually I
have to go after 12 months
so do you have any advice for a new
graduate that’s looking to get into the
industry
yeah I think across the board I’m sure
I’m not the only person to say this but
develop your network you know yeah it’s
it’s as simple as reaching out to
somebody who’s in this in the industry
and just asking can I hear your stories
that I can learn from it you don’t need
to show up with a million questions or
have it be you know a record-breaking
quality interview or anything like that
or there’s none of that you know quality
that needs to happen all you need to do
is show up be curious and and engage be
present enough to engage and lean into
the conversation and you will learn from
that experience and you’ll likely also
get an offer of help realistically if
you’ve spent the time listening to
somebody’s story and you showed
curiosity they’re probably going to come
out the other end and think you’re
awesome and want to help you and so it’s
as simple as just reaching out and
asking and and I mean even if any of
your listeners today are interested in
reaching out to me I encourage them all
to you know LinkedIn email Donna you
borrow.com absolutely to just ask to
listen or ask for help it’s so important
to do because that is how you accelerate
that is how you learn the things that
aren’t on blog posts
um or on you know social feeds it’s just
how you learn the real the real human
way of moving forward so I would say
develop your network it sounds scary
it’s a thing that our parents were
telling us and their parents are
probably telling them but it’s real
yes yeah I absolutely agree I think the
things that you learn from your network
as well
um you know it’s just so small
conversations that you have with people
and you sometimes they turn out to be
the the best advice you you’ve ever
heard and it’s a small conversation that
you really didn’t see coming I remember
speaking to a lady years ago and um she
said to me when she describes her job
when somebody says to what do you do for
a living she doesn’t go into detail
about what she does every day she worked
in cell she she headed up on a sales
team for a very large um tech company
and instead of detailing all of the
little things she just said you know I
find the shortest route to the money and
that’s all she says which it just
absolutely describes what she does
without having to say you know I run
this sales team and and going through
the numbers and everything and I think
it’s this finding a way to be able to
Showcase your skills
um and and to be proud of them as well
and to to show your personality I think
even if something funny happens on an
interview then you’re always remembered
as you know that girl that that happens
you know you don’t get forgotten because
something hilarious happened during the
interview
um because you can quite easily
disappear in you know amongst 10 other
candidates and not be remembered so um
as long as it’s not too wild
anyway yeah boundaries right yeah yeah
that’s an excellent yeah it’s a it’s an
excellent point and you know I think I
think I mean it ties back to what she
said before interview practice right
it’s getting to that place of speaking
confidently but I think it’s also deep
recognizing that you can depersonalize
it because you know if if you do not end
up with that job chances are it’s much
less about you than it is about the
other candidates that are applied in
that process and so the more you can
kind of depersonalize show up
authentically like you mentioned the
more likely it is you’ll be remembered
and that’s really really what you’re
looking to do is is to stand out as
somebody who can do the job based on the
skills and the way that you showed up
yeah yeah and we are running out of time
and I have one last question that I want
to ask you so
um obviously we are a community of um
females in technology
um and we know the tech sector has
shortage of women
um so what what more can be done to
encourage the female Talent pipeline
yeah
it’s a really great question because
there are so many things I could be
encouraged uh they could encourage the
the pipeline but I think you know at the
end of the day
um the tech industry is about growth and
opportunities and so I it’s it’s got a
lot going for it don’t have everything
going for it but no industry does no
industry is perfect
what tech does enable you to do is take
charge of your own growth you know
increase your your total income it
allows you to impact change small and
big there’s so much Green Field that has
yet to to really be explored that
so many Industries do not offer and so I
think it’s if there’s one thing that we
could be doing to encourage just that
Talent pipeline is to share share that
explain that uh take the time to help
help individuals on a one-on-one basis
just understand that there’s that much
opportunity
um and and shape it that frame it up
rather that way I think that’s something
that we can each do is to take that
responsibility to help make sure that
it’s communicated that way because if
it’s just communicated as like you know
where the engineers go you know it’s not
just females no one’s going to want to
go over there yeah
but so it needs to be communicated for
what it is as opposed to through that
very narrow lens and I think if we could
begin communicating it that way then
then people will come women will come
females Will Come Those Who
self-identify and we’ll get more diverse
diversity within within I think
absolutely yeah I as we’ve mentioned on
this already I think those of us that
work in technology are so aware of the
benefits
um of of working in this industry and I
always find it such a shame when I speak
to ladies in Tech and the first thing I
say is you know how did you end up in
Tech and they say we fell into
technology you know but there are so
many of us that that say that
um and it would be lovely to start
hearing that uh women have chosen to
come into the tech industry because it’s
a great place to work and they know all
the benefits so you’re right it’s just
communicating that I think we do we do
have a bit of a problem as a as an
industry communicating
um you know that the benefits of of
working here so
um but we I could talk all afternoon on
this as you can see
um but we are out of time already so and
thank you Donna so much for sharing your
experience with us today oh thank you
it’s been it’s been wonderful I’ve truly
enjoyed the conversation and appreciate
the chance to share
wonderful thank you for coming and um to
everybody listening as usual thank you
so much for joining us and we hope to
see you again next time
