You’ve put away the cap and gown and university seems like a distant memory – so now what?
Finding a graduate job can seem like a daunting prospect, but we’re here to guide you through it. In this episode, we get the lowdown on getting a graduate job in tech from Sam Vickerman, Retail Practice Director at Grayce.
With 12 years of experience working in technology, Sam is an experienced Director with a demonstrated history of supporting clients across retail and financial services.
We’ll be talking about why a career in tech is a great move, CV advice, interview tips, valuable resources, getting experience and much more.
Listen to discover how to start your career in tech on the right foot!
hello everyone and thank you for tuning in as always I am Kaylee Bateman the content director at chican code and
today we’re calling all graduates you’ve put away the cat and gown and University seems like a distant memory
so now what today we’re getting the low down from Sam vickerman retail practice
director at Grace on how to get a graduate job in Tech welcome Sam
thank you all of us who have been invited along to uh talk about getting more women into Tech which is a massive
passion of mine so I’ll give you a little intro to who Grace is
um I don’t know my background wonderful so Grayson as you mentioned practice
director for retail also the insurance practice here at Grace but I also head up our Tech Plus offering so what Grace
does is basically focus on emerging Talent into the industry and that could be in anything from change data and Tech
roles so my specific passion and handsome here today is the tech side of it comes from myself really having a
background as well from 24 25 years ago I started in the tech industry
um for me it’s getting people to recognize that you don’t have to be a tacky to work in Tech and I think you
know it’s it’s a phrase that I hear many many times from women in the industries be that kind of EX colleagues of mine or
or now clients but you know I’m I’m working technology but I’m not a techie
and it’s almost like you’re apologizing for it and there’s absolutely nothing I
hear that apology a lot and I myself do right so I started out
on I see help desk did a little bit of code gosh back in the day it was COBOL and which was a long long term
and yeah needless to say I wouldn’t have a clue where to start now so for me this is very much about you
know I found the service just a brilliant way to get into the industry but over the years what we’ve found is those sorts of roles quite often are
outsourced or they’re sent off to you know what we’re finding in certainly when we first looked at Tech side a lot
was outsourced to India to other places that those starting roles that you got
from things like the service desk or a bit of application management and support weren’t as often available as
the previously had been so what we do here at Grace is recruit graduates
um and you might have six months 12 months experience and you might not have a technical degree but you’ve been doing
a degree you might have done it you know brilliant girl um with us that’s done a degree in English but went off to do a
coding course and joined us to be um in tech and and absolutely loves it
and we offer a three to a two to three year development program so it’s a learning development pathway but you
also go out On Assignment with clients so we work with some really big kind of ftse 100 clients that need that support
and needs you know need those skill capability builds and we work with them to do that so we focus predominantly
within Tech on software development but also information cyber security
a graduate then and somebody has revealed you know that the busted that
myth and they’ve said to you know what you don’t have to be technical to to work in Tech why would that graduate be you know why
would they consider a career in the tech industry do you think so for me
um and and you know the feedback we get to my brothers all the time there is so many different opportunity areas within
Tech so it’s forever changing you know the one great thing about being in Tech is the Innovation that comes with it
there’s different platforms different solutions regularly I think changes
pretty much you’re learning something new over two and a half years the whole thing changes around so it’s interesting
I think you get to work with business areas I mean every single business cannot function now without Tech so
where it used to be seen as a bit of a cost center and a kind of cost to accompany it’s now seen as integral so I
think wherever you go in the industry now you will be touching technology anyway even if you want done a
changeover data pathway you would still be touching technology you know whether that is the transforming of the digital
kind of areas of that or whether it’s you know within retail it’s the new software system that they’ve put to
track the warehouses there is always technology within it so I think it’s just such an interesting area to get
into it’s it’s changing all the time there are so many different roles as
mentioned before you don’t have to be a techie if you want to be a techie there’s loads of techy roles out there right now it’s brilliant and you know if
you get into code there’s opportunity now where there wasn’t before I think through covered really as well people
are digitizing a lot more so there’s a lot more opportunity not just with the big companies now but smaller startups
um companies that you wouldn’t see as a tech company necessarily they all need tech and so I think there’s just so much
Choice out there now yes and and even when you hear you know at the minute there are so many stories in in the news
at the mid about you know the tech industry that are bigger companies that
are struggling and are making redundancies however those skills they’re always
needed and as you mentioned Tech is so fast-paced if you have the right skills you’re always going to be snapped up by
another company so it’s always just a really good career path to to get into
absolutely is and I think there’s you know you can choose I say this time you
know I’ve got children now that starting out their careers it doesn’t mean to say you have to stick
to one element as well so I started off on the service desk but I quickly moved into kind of service management and then
planning and governance of it so that led to my career in a completely different trajectory than maybe I
thought it was going to happen in the first place other people that I work with on the service desk kind of went on to be software developers or actually
physically fixing Hardware or became data analysts so it’s a foot in the door I think when you
get into Tech whether you start on the service desk or starts as a software developer you can go in any direction
you don’t have to go and be a leader you can specialize there is so much choice for you and I think that’s what’s
exciting about working in the industry as well and you see such you get opportunity to innovate you get an
opportunity to work with so many different types of people in different areas yeah and in terms of
qualifications because you don’t you don’t need to have a technical degree to be considered for a career in Tech I
think that turns a lot of people off though doesn’t it you think if I didn’t take that at University I kind of missed the boat on going into technology but
you already mentioned somebody at the start there who has an English degree yeah absolutely actually what we find so
we get computer science gloves coming to us obviously that’s kind of the next you know the obvious supposed degree that
people do but what we actually find is there are many people with you know for example geography
um grants actually make brilliant factors and data analysts because they’re actually sifting through so much data and they find kind of ways that and
means to do that same with mass grads and Stanley’s obviously the kind of
route that most people think they have to go in you really don’t know there are so many opportunities so many stuff
online that you can do there are coding clubs you can join there are you know companies that will give you kind of you
know you can do a 12-week boot camp so I think as you can test your aptitude you can actually go online now and see what
does software development kind of pathway way worked for me I would technical roles work but actually
do one of these courses it’s free or do a little kind of you know little course on the internet and it gives you an idea
of whether that’s something you’re really interested in but what we do here at Grace is really look at the skill set and it’s not about what degree
background you’ve got it’s actually have you got the aptitude the personality the kind of problem-solving skills The
Logical thinking that would enable you to be really successful in that career and communication in any role is key and
that counts just as much in in kind of technical roles in it roles it’s not
necessarily about how great a coder you are but it’s about can you understand can you problem solve can you
communicate to other teams and I think that’s probably the most important thing we look like and we look for is really
that attitude yeah and I think as well when you’re at University
I don’t always know what you want to do I mean it’s quite a a time of Discovery
isn’t it I mean I I knew what I wanted to do but I think I was probably the only person on my course who kind of
knew what they wanted to be as a child and went on to study that but everybody
else is kind of figuring out whether or not they they even enjoy the course that
they they were taking and and a lot of people once they’ve graduated I remember some of um the students some of my
friends around me saying well actually I don’t know what to do now or now I might have to go off and study something else
to to teach in that area or you know whatever it may be but and you know in this um somebody you’re lucky enough for
to be at a careers fair and somebody points out actually technology you know
we’re here Open Arms you don’t have to have had a computer science degree
um I think it’s a lot of graduates really have not discovered what route they’d like to go down
um actually yeah and that email to my next question about CVS and how to stand
out to potential employers because I think that’s the other thing when you graduate it’s a baptism of fire when you
share your CV and you realize you’re really bad at putting together a CV s
other graduates and you’re completely invisible and just so overlooked yeah
honestly I don’t think that changes through your career to be honest I think everybody you know I just what you’re saying that about being at University
I’m not sure what you want to do I think I spent my whole career kind of safe I really don’t know what I’m doing next
and things happen don’t they I think the key for me with this CV and when you’re
applying for jobs it’s defines it’s it’s to be yourself to be honest a lot of
people try to be somebody else on a CV well do you know what you’re either gonna get found out very quickly are you
going to be in a role where you’re actually not happy because you’re not being yourself and being true to yourself so for me I think I would
before you even start and you see the I would ask people what they actually think what are your strengths what what
are you really good at and what do people see you as being you know and that if you’re trying to get into a
technical role of course you want your technical skills to be highlighted in there quite often transferable skills
are just as paid so as I mentioned before when we’re looking for people we’re looking for the attitude we’re
looking for that personality trait you know around being supportive Being Human
caring being able to communicate to others those are really really stand out
to be honest in Tech roles and anyway all right that’s it so it’s it’s been
clear you know what are your transferable skills when you go for a tech role logical thinking problem
solving what examples have you got you might not have done a tech role to give a tech example but you can give a
problem solving example and I think for me it’s you know if you
are technical you know have you got a portfolio like GitHub making making sure there’s a link to that that people can
actually see and go and see your work so be proud of the stuff you have done where you’ve been self-teaching make
sure that’s on there because actually somebody’s self-teaching themselves I had a brilliant lab that was working he
was full-time working in a furniture store and if you’d look at his CV
generally you’d have gone actually that’s definitely not a techie but what he then added was he’d been doing some
self-training on udemy he’d done a YouTube video so every week you’d go out and do something showing what you’d
learned showing what and we thought what a brilliant guy it came across the
passionist CV itself the experience was working in you know I think it was Harvey’s or somebody like that burn it
too as well but actually you know the skills that you’ve done by just self-teaching and doing these YouTube
videos just blew us away and he actually went on now he’s a senior test lead now
at boohoo is amazing career um and and that is just from that
continuous self-development and really putting himself out there it’s not easy to do a YouTube video and you know
there’s so many different things like Tick Tock now that you can go on as well don’t be afraid to kind of try these
things and see yeah and that mindset of as you said continuous learning that’s
just something that you know all developers have as we said technology moves so fast and you have to keep up
and it’s not just you get your computer science degree in 1999 and you’re in and
that’s it you have to keep learning and that’s true you know a lot of computer science squads and we we find it you
know we’re speaking to our clients sometimes those computer science skills
are not actually relevant to the workplace what is relevant is that continuous kind of you know keeping on
top of the industry what reading the blogs watching the YouTube videos understanding what’s happening in the
industry makes you much more relevant than as you say a degree that you might have got 20 years ago in computer
science yeah and the thing is as well nowadays so I remember when I graduated
I remember recruiters saying to me don’t show your personality on your CV don’t
make you know a video or don’t even include your picture but actually nowadays a potential employer is going
to Google you anyway so is it better to add a little video or just add a little
link to something that you do on YouTube because they kind of they want to see you anyway and they’re going to Google
you though and I do think things have changed from that you know it used to be very black and white didn’t it it had to
be formal it had some I think if you’re in Tech now the tech industry she is so creative and I think you know having a
little bit of your personality there does matter people want to know who you are I think the world of Works changed
quite a lot and I was certainly you know I looked at doing a CD a few years ago and I felt crack here this is completely
different so like the old you know really structured way of doing it and we see some brilliant CVS you know for
people that are applying towards some real standouts where they have put the link to the GitHub on the YouTube or you
know the tick tock that they’ve been doing and I think it you know it’s not always appropriate if you’re going for a
suppose a director attack Rover at the top maybe you wouldn’t want to do that so important things you wouldn’t share
the people starting out I mean you’re absolutely right people will Google anyway right links in Now is really open
for everybody but actually YouTube ticked up a lot on you know you only
need to Google somebody’s name you can see what they’ve done and it’s a real you know one way it can work really badly if you’ve not a lot to social
still there so on the side of the side you’ve got to
lock that down be careful I mean as you mentioned though things are things have
really changed and lots of people start you know their own YouTube channels and and it’s it’s so much easier now to show
your personality so what were your thoughts on cover letters then are they are they still needed so do we still sit
down and write that cover letter yeah do you know what and it’s interesting because there are mixed views on it so I
think again a couple letter now it’s still relevant to kind of that for me
what a cover letter can do is Express why you want to work for that particular content so for me it’s about doing the research
on what role you’re applying to and being able to use that cover letter to say it but I don’t think it needs to be War and Peace and I think it can be
quite simple I think the old days of spending hours and hours trying to challenge
isn’t as relevant now because as you say it literally is just to get you in front of that employer to say I’m interested
in this role and you know I think we see BR certainly we do here at Gracie beyond
the cover letter you’re looking more at the CV you’re looking at that person as they’re coming through that initial
phone call with them or the initial video experience um it’s not about War and Peace on your
cover letter at the start it can be a great way of actually saying right okay you can get something maybe quirky to
catch them out depending on the role that you’re going for and depending on your own personality some people aren’t
quirky right some people want to be just straight down the line and and that’s easy to do as well as be yourself is
really important and I suppose a little bit more than to you know whoever it may concerned my
CV is attached Yours Faithfully um but you know so maybe
let’s sing sing more about your skills in your CV and actually as you mentioned
when when you get through um to the first interview um interview tips now you know I mean we
hear a real range of things that you should and shouldn’t do in an interview um but do you what about your tips you
know did technical interviews differ in any way or have you not found we I mean
we as mentioned before we have three different programs we’ve got change data and second to some extent they are all
very similar right it’s about talking about who you are you know so present tell us about yourself what are your
likes what your dislike you know what do you understand about business you know it’s you know what are good businesses
and why do they succeed what are what a challenge you know why particular businesses not works out and it gets
them to think about the industry as a whole and I think from technical
interview wise the only difference for us is really trying to drill into those
qualities that we’ve mentioned before the problem solving the analytical nature and we may get them to do you
know to present on a piece of code they’ve done or a piece of you know they
might have developed an app or you know it might even be just an understanding of somebody else’s work what they what
they understand from it so show us you know something it might be a Cyber attack that’s happened as well why did
that happen What could they have done differently so for us it’s the biggest part of it is actually trying to get
their personality and their passion so we want to know why they want a career in Tech you know not necessarily have
they done all of these things but actually what do they understand about Sir what do they like about it if that
passion shines through and that personality that’s the bit that’s really important obviously we all like the
starts at naked and you know the the demonstrable transferable skills But ultimately if somebody’s got that
passion and personality that really what you know we want to see that shining through why do you want that career in Tech what is it about set that interests
you you know what do you understand about the second Australia it’s those kind of questions that I think bring out
the best in people yeah it’s so hard isn’t it as a graduate because you don’t have the you don’t
always have the experience in the area that you you would like to go and you you’ve had very you know small work
experience placements and actually when you write them down you kind of look and you think how am I supposed to show that
I really want to go into an area without without that experience it’s it’s incredibly difficult but as you say it’s
just I think it takes practice because if I look back now in the first few interviews I went for when I first
graduated I mean it takes practice just a potential
employer and just learning to to chat even through the interview because
you’re so nervous as well and you think if you just relax and chat and I remember on I must have been on about
five or six and I eventually accepted a cup of tea because at first I was like no
I don’t I don’t want any drinks you know I’m just I’m just here to do the formalities of this job interview
um just relax and then you become more yourself and that’s what they want to see but it took a very long time to
figure that out yeah and you know what we see a real mix of people and the ones
that are most successful are the ones that actually remember to smile um and I always say that you know when
our analysts are going meeting clients for the first time you know when they’re kind of going on that first assignment
try and breathe and smile because quite often you forget to get that nervous
you’re trying to remember everything you want to say and you forget to smile but actually it’s about building rapport
with the interviewer so you know of course there’ll be an opportunity for you to talk about your Tech skills or
talk about your Tech understanding yeah as you said you’ve not got much experience it’s how do you demonstrate
that passion and so I think build that Rapport and people will warm to you and they’ll get that it’s so much easier to
get something out somebody if you’ve got that warm relationship from the poor isn’t it and a genuine Smile as well not
like a scary one make sure it’s genuine
and we mentioned a little bit there about you know communication for instance what what soft skills would you
say employers are looking for the most so for us it is generally and I think
most employers now want to think about our clients as well when they’re looking at people it is communication skills and
the ability to you know I think I think we’ve seen it so many times can you work on a team can you be an individual all
of that kind of stuff but actually it is demonstrating that you can mix with people that you are you know you’ve got
a personality you can actually go and get up off the desk and you know if you don’t understand that particular ticket
you can pick up the phone or walk to somebody and say actually you’ve raised this ticket what does it actually mean
you know or how can I help you and better understand that the ability to question I suppose and we we love we
always say be curious right the most curious people and you know the ones that will succeed they’re not afraid to
ask a question back they’re not afraid to kind of make sure that they fully understand it and I think when people do
that it also shows a bit of vulnerability right don’t be annoy yourself because nobody knows it all yeah it does so it’s that continued
learning be curious communicate be warm you know get your own personality out
there and hopefully it’s a good personality it might be yeah being curious is is so important I
think that really shows in your interview as well you know if you’ve done your research into the company
you’ve got um tailored questions to ask and they’re not just the basic questions that you
would ask in a job interview I think that that really shines if somebody’s you know been really I don’t mean
digging into a company to see you know what kind of dirt they can get onto them okay okay from that and really in the
interview um you know just but really you know tailoring their answers and why they’re
there yeah and I think you know those questions at the end of an interviewee so if you’ve got any questions for me
I my heart sinks a little bit when they’re saying no you’ve answered it all because I think we couldn’t possibly
there’ll be something there I also say you know think about what you’ve learned
about the company there must be something you’re curious to know a little bit more about and it gives you the opportunities to show you’ve looked
into the company as well when you’re asking that questions it might be actually a scene on your website you’ve
had this initiative you know will there be an opportunity to do more or I’ll have you know how did that land are
showing that you’ve actually looked into that company and you really are interested and it might only be a little
question but to have that question at the end shows that yeah you do care and
you want that job yeah because all employers know as a graduate you are sending out hundreds of applications
yeah you need to at least show that you’ve taken a moment to yeah you know
just deceiving the home page on their website and you will stand out honestly I love it when you know you interview
somebody and they can and just will I eat there’s something they’ve seen themselves on YouTube about the company
or you know oh I’ve spoken to such and such when you’ve reached out to somebody in the company as well and asked them a
question and I love that it just you know it’s not a huge amount of overhead for you when you’re going for a job to
just do a little research on the company that you’re going for and that really does hit it with you know with the
interviewer I think this this something oh this person really does want to work here yeah now reaching out to somebody
in the company that’s a that’s a great idea for graduates should also graduates
be looking at volunteering internships you we mentioned a little bit about how hard it is when you don’t have the
experience is that something that graduates should be actively looking to do you know whilst even still at
University I think so I really do think so I think getting that volunt you know if you
can’t land an internship which by the way are really really hard at the moment through covert I think what we’ve found over the last couple of years is is
where people would get that six month or 12 month experience from an internship they’ve not been happening in the same
way the thing that then gives the Brads the edges where they’ve actually gone and
done some voluntary work or they may actually you know support in a charity so Charities haven’t got a huge amount
of money to be developing websites or doing you know even creating a form we’ve had our grads
that have gone into a charity and you know doing something simple as an Excel form and putting a macro on it for somebody
actually makes the world of difference to that particular charity gives you something to put on your CD and there’s
a real feel good on both sides then and I think there are things like that you can volunteer might be going into a
local school scene if you can teach some of the younger kids some code so you know we know now at Primary School
people are looking at coding at a very simple level but can you do something to help a school nearby can you help a
charity um or even you know it might be your local working in a local restaurant but can you do something about the booking
system there you know there are all sorts of things that you you know you put your mind to it there are ways that
you could get that experience yeah and the confidence that you get from that
and I think also just realizing that you know sometimes what you learn at University doesn’t always transfer very
well into the world of work so volunteering is a great way to figure that out to think how do I actually
apply what I learned to the Working World before I get to my first job and I
think that was quite frightening and you know it’s great going back to
Kansas City to be able to put that on your CV and to show that you’ve done something like that it does make a difference and it will
give you the edge against other people you know somebody might have a first class degree that doesn’t make them any
better than somebody with a 2-2 that’s then gone and volunteered and actually can demonstrate some technical
capabilities that we’ve done and it doesn’t have to be huge it can be something simple yeah yeah and in terms
of job hunting obviously there are lots of Articles and podcasts and advice about what you should do while you’re
job hunting whilst you’re job hunting that’s an
interesting questions to say I mean first of all don’t give up that’s one thing that you shouldn’t have a decreases attitude but I think
um what not to do you know don’t don’t be unprepared make sure that you do
actually spend time researching reaching out to people so don’t be unprepared don’t give up don’t forget your soft
skills that’s just as important as your hard skills and don’t take rejection personally like us quite often yes you
know there are a lot of people are going for the same roles so if you don’t get it it’s just not meant to be at that
particular one don’t ever take it personally so for me don’t Stop researching don’t stop being curious and
please don’t take me direction personally I mean that’s my don’ts for it I think yeah which is is quite hard
when you when you’re young and you and you start looking obviously I mean you mentioned their
rejection how do you stay positive during a job hunt you know you have some
stressful you haven’t got the experience and it’s going to take you some time what can you do to keep going again I
think it comes back to that trying to think of other things you can be doing as well so don’t just focus on right I
must get this job I must get this job you know if needs be get a part-time job doing something completely different to
give your mind a break and actually you will always get transferable skills in whatever role in there
brilliant grads of you know they’ve got skills from working at McDonald’s because it’s fast-paced it’s quick
you’re dealing with clients all the time you know every now you’ve got a different customer a different challenge you’re doing teamwork there’s something
that you can do every time that will be transferable that will get you to that path so you know don’t bats are the kind
of don’ts I suppose while you’re interviewing don’t stop learning don’t stop trying to kind of do all the things
distract your mind if you need to take a week out of the job search and just go and do something for you that fuels a
different passion because it is draining and there is a lot of you know if you
you’re getting up every day and you’re thinking right which one am I going to apply for you’re going to lose that passion you’re going to lose the reason
and you know the thing that you want to do and where you want to get to actually becomes further and further away because
you become almost jaded yeah so for me keep learning attend networking events
you know go and do something but you’ll be learning while you’re there but you also meet some other people and getting
ideas you know a big part of a forum online you know talk talk to people don’t be the one thing to not be is on
your own and thinking it’s all down to you to get this job and that’s the be all and end-all of the world because it really isn’t you know go and do some
volunteering go on do a Tech Fest you know there’s all sorts of tech festivals take place across the country go and
have a visit go around the Stalls get the freebies we always love doing that yeah
go around and get the free earphones and everything else that’s it yeah
and I must say yeah as a student who works at McDonald’s
it I absolutely loved it and it was incredibly hard and you are absolutely right just taking yourself away from
that that that thought of I’m I must graduate you must get a job it must be
in this area even something like at McDonald’s it’s incredibly hard to work at McDonald’s I must say but just
talking to people every day I mean you talk to hundreds of people that come through a lot of them do complain at you
but even getting used to that you know dealing with the public shouting at you
exactly honestly I think whatever you do you know it may be you know whether it’s
McDonald’s you know working in a restaurant actually doing a little YouTube channel yourself right to keep
yourself interested you know I couldn’t understand how my son could sit in front of a computer playing his Xbox and then
watch YouTube videos somebody else playing the Xbox and I just it never it kind of didn’t stick with you it’s
such a thing though that actually that was his way of just switching off and watching somebody else do it for a
little bit and talk through and you know there are so many opportunities things to do while you’re actually on that job
search and you know take yourself out for a walk sometimes you know just go and go and visit
somewhere new and do some research on cold things where you know you might actually not think you’re interested in
a particular one but start doing bigger little deeper and you’ll see where the tech is almost set yourself a little
task of saying okay right I’ll pick it pick a company right what sort of tech roles do I think that company might have
in the future oh my baby girl might do and you’ll realize it’s so integral to
every organization so no matter where you end up going and what job you start you know let’s say I started off on the
anti-out desk right but you could start off in I don’t know a claims department of an insurance company but you’re in
and you can start working your way through then you start meeting people in those organizations so don’t think gosh
it’s got to be a tech World from the start it could be something completely different in that organization but every
organization will have technical needs and you can get there you’ll build your way through it if that’s really what you
want to do yeah and if you are in the right company as well I think they’re so encouraging of that those transferable
skills if they notice um that that you’re interested in a career in technology you can even
transition from as you said a non-techy role into a techie role once you’re in
the right company yeah um we are almost out of time but um I have one last question do you have any favorite
resources for job Seekers any advice and where you would send people yeah I I
certainly do and people are actually she can call them are brilliant for us I think I recommend you know we’ve talked
a lot about the YouTube channels but I’d recommend joining the coding clubs as well and being part of it so you’ve got things right Manchester digital and
digital herd there’s innovate her there’s code first girls she can code you know there are so many different
coding clubs coding organizations we do a session here at Grace once a month
called the code code Club and on that kind of cold Club it’s cold bar it’s
anybody from different backgrounds just giving them a taster for coding so I I
would say do your research have a look join some of these go to the Manchester Tech Festival I’m in London London
techfest there are across the country different things taking place so Google
it research it see what’s going on in in your local area there will always be
some sort of event or Tech event going on or coding course you know I think most colleges will do it if you just
want to get poster for it you can get the taste I think you know again so many
different um things out on the internet that you can do research and Google and you know
just keep going honestly keep going and keep trying and have a look um yeah there are so many different
things I’m just thinking now what I kind of looked at before there’s different podcasts there’s you know I.T career
Energizer there’s learn to code of me this Daily Tech update so I think if you
have a look even you know whether it’s Twitter or on Google on Facebook there’ll be different things that you
can stay connected to and that gives you a really good way of staying current as well as meeting other people in that
Community yeah yeah that is lovely advice to to end it there thank you
thank you so much Sammy it’s gone so far so thank you so much
no thank you for coming along with deaf and you have you back for another update at some point would probably be lovely
but um thank you to everybody as always for listening and we hope to see you again next time
