In today’s episode of Spilling the T, we’re joined by three aspiring women in engineering as we discuss how to successfully transition from education to the private sector.
Joining us from Bramble Energy are Sharon Oahimijie, Junior Project Manager; Aisling Elmer, Customer Solutions Manager; and Eliska Krizova, Product Systems Engineer.
We’ll be chatting about choosing the right degree; tips on getting your first role; gaining confidence as a junior woman in tech; how to navigate tricky conversations and much more.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in again I am Katie batesman the content director at chican code in today’s
episode I’m joined by three incredible women in engineering to discuss how to successfully transition from education
to the private sector we’ll be chatting about choosing the right degree tips on getting your first role gaining
confidence as a junior woman in Tech how to navigate tricky conversations and much more so joining from Bramble energy
today is Sharon oahimaja do you new project manager Ashling Elmer customer
Solutions manager and Alaska cruzova product systems engineer all from
Bramble energy welcome ladies thank you so much for joining me today thank you for having us
well we’re going to kick off we’ve got so much to discuss um but we’re going to kick off with some backgrounds uh first because we’d love to hear a bit about
each of you um Sharon should we start with you tell us a little bit about your background how you got into Tech where you’re from
yeah that’s definitely fine um hello my name is Sharon um I’m originally from Nigeria and just
moved to the UK in 2018 for University um I just recently graduated from the
University of sorry last July studying chemical engineering straight after uni
I worked in recruitment for about three months and from October I started working at Bramble energy as a junior
project manager so day to day I mainly focus on managing Grant funded um zero
emission projects I also support in bid writing carrying out quarterly review meetings presenting project outcomes to
management officers and the business um the business at large so that’s kind of like a brief summary of
Sharon amazing Sharon it doesn’t sounds like you have a lot of responsibility I’m
uh asking um yourself yes um hi I’m ashtang
um and the customer Solutions manager at Bramble energy um I have a masters in Natural Sciences
um and I’ve always had a keen interest in sustainability
um and uh yeah for my uh when I first left University I did a
placement internship um funded by the Royal Society of chemistry in making materials for water
electrolyzers and fuel cells and that’s what really got me focused and interested in specifically the hydrogen
economy and whilst I was working there I sort of gradually transitioned from a
lab-based research role to customer facing research role and then finally to Business Development which is what I’m
currently doing at Bramble so I work with new customers and partners to
explain our technology to them explain the benefits of our technology to them and yeah try to further develop it for
their specific requirements and needs amazing amazing um and Alaska yourself
last but not least thank you my name is eliska I’m originally from the Czech Republic
um born and raised growing up I really enjoyed chemistry and that was really like my thing and also like all the
technical subjects but also always felt like that I was really interested in this subjects but also subjects but also
a little bit discouraged I feel like that really boils down and stems from what Society teaches us and what they
teach us in school that these technical subjects are mostly for boys but I
pushed through and I went to University and I studied at University of chemistry and technology in Prague I studied
chemical engineering with a specific focus on the energy sector specifically
oil oil and gas industry and oil and gas sector
and then I somehow fell into this Fuel Cell World this cleantech world and it
was a bit of a random random coins lens there was this one role that I saw in
Midlands it was for a fuel cell company based in Midlands I was still studying in the Czech Republic but I applied and
to my surprise they they invited me for an interview which which was crazy to me
did the interview thought it went terribly wrong but I actually got the role and the rest is history I I have
been when I worked out back there as a fuel cell engineer um so I worked on development of fuel
cell stacks for automotive and Aero industry but also uh fuel cell stacks
for the stationary power applications so I did a lot of that like that for about three and a half years
and after three and obvious I feel like maybe it’s time to move on and that’s when the opportunity here at Bramble
arose and and I took it and this is what I do now I’m a product systems engineer
I do lean on a lot on the fuel cell stack knowledge that I learned in my previous company but I’m also learning a
lot about the system side of things and me and my team we’re currently trying to
put a very first product onto the market it’s been a challenge but that’s yeah
that’s what we’re doing amazing I love the bed that you went through an interview and you thought it all went wrong and actually I feel like
the system I feel like this is such a terrible thing like I really like to emphasize
that you should never listen to this inner critic that’s just trying to sabotage you and I feel like I’ve come a
really long way from thinking this way you know I don’t really do that anymore
yes we we had a live webinar recently um about imposter syndrome and yeah that’s
exactly that those those thoughts creep in um and before you know it you’ve talked
yourself out of a wonderful career and it’s just finding strategies obviously to as you say to ignore the inner voice
100 yeah and I love the fact that you all have
um uh stem backgrounds um and because I wanted to talk a little bit about that about you know what you chose to study
at Uni um and why and you know do you have any advice on on picking the right degree I
suppose because for those of us um that that might you know our listeners that are thinking of coming
into the industry do you have to have a technical degree how do you how do you
even pick that um in terms of why I chose to study um
chemical engineering so I guess that had that stemmed from
um so back home in Nigeria we had something called the black suits Menace
so it’s basically it was basically black um thick dust that would cover like our
homes clothes um skin Etc so it was I think it was caused from
emissions into the environment and it was mostly permanent in the river States
area which is where I was based at a time so I guess just experiencing it and watching people would like fall ill from
that made me kind of want to focus in finding an Innovative solution to work
in a sector right that was focused in finding innovative solutions to environmental problems so I guess that’s
why the interests of chemical engineering came into play and from
there and so I went into studying that at Uni and from there finding Bramble
energy which is also kind of focused in dessert emission as well I felt like that glued with my intentions
um and also I guess the good thing about studying chemical engineering is you don’t need to actually work as a chemical engineer it gives you a lot of
like soft skills as well as technical skills which can be um can be applied in different job roles so it doesn’t make
you very strict on you know this is what you study so this is exactly what you
are going to be doing in your in like in in your career for the rest of your life or
something like that um in terms of people like advice on people on what to study I feel like it
depends on what you’re drawn to if you’re drawn to stem I feel like you should give it a go you should
definitely um you know find what interests you and then lean
towards it um it might be difficult to pinpoint kind of what you’re interested in
especially maybe at a young age but the good thing is you’d graduate maybe in
your I’m going to say 20 so I guess that’s the eighth sort of experiment and see what exactly sticks and what you
like what you enjoy and sort of kick on with that you don’t need to have for example a project management
degree to actually work as a project manager for example yes definitely I love the fact that you
said that I think it is a misconception in in this industry that you have to have very techy qualifications
um and you go into a very technical sounding role um but actually you know as you said there are so many soft skills that um
that you can bring to a role anyway exactly important so interesting that
normally um I hear people say or a teacher encouraged me into a certain area
um or a parent and actually you were experiencing um you know it firsthand what that you
you know you wanted to bring about change um because it was something that you were experiencing
um first hand um around you so um yeah it’s it’s normally you hear or
it’s an encouragement at school or something like that um yeah I mean definitely my dad was
very interested in cleaning in me studying that as well but you know it was just kind of like the emissions it
was just very bad like you have to kind of like regularly clean the houses and
stuff and like wear masks so it was yeah it was definitely a factor as well and I guess also being a woman in Engineering
also played a role just kind of breaking the misconception of you know women
cannot study engineering or it’s more difficult for us to do that or just some just basically making sure to be part of
the change or like part of the person people would look up to you know she studied it so I can do it you
don’t necessarily have to like I said just work in the role if that’s not what interests you in the future yes yeah
definitely um and Ashley and yourself uh what about you were you encouraged into your degree
by somebody or how did you pick your degree um and how would you advise
somebody else to pick theirs um yeah so I think
um I ended up in my degree I think because I’m bad at making decisions
it wasn’t so much um so I did um
chemistry physics and maths as my a levels
um and I really enjoyed all of them um I didn’t I don’t think I ever really
thought engineering specifically is what I want to do I enjoyed like the the
theory of it I think at the time more than the applying the science so I knew
I wanted to do I guess a straight science subject um so I chose Natural Sciences because
it allowed me to choose some chemistry some Physics some maths and I think in
hindsight something like a Materials Science degree probably would have allowed me to do all of that as well but
I think it’s a lot of it sort of knowing what’s available um and
finding a degree program in a university that you really like um so I went to Bath and it was great I
loved loved my time at University and definitely really glad that I studied the degree that I did because I
effectively got to build my own degree I got to choose you know all of the
modules from each subject that I uh wanted to do the most
um and ultimately ended up with a degree that sort of then led me towards electrochemistry and
hydrogen so yeah really glad that I did what I did but I guess it was
um almost uh yeah a happy accident that I couldn’t make a decision and then ended
up doing something that I was really happy with um well it’s it’s nice to hear that yeah I
hear a lot of ladies fall into um the industry and I’ve never heard it referred to as a happy accident I
couldn’t make a decision um anyway
where you encouraged in some way or discouraged perhaps by others a little
bit of both I was encouraged and discouraged at the same time like I said I had this respect from like all
technical subjects but then I decided to study chemical engineering which quite frankly wasn’t easy for me and
perhaps I wasn’t natural as some of my other colleagues where but ultimately I
just pushed through it you know and rolled with the punches I think when you’re 18 or 19 when you’re
choosing what to do with your future I think it can be very overwhelming for people yeah I know there’s
there’s a lot of people out there who know what they want to do in the future and that’s that’s amazing I love that
for them but I think there’s a bigger majority that actually doesn’t know what they want to do but if you do choose to
study any you know engineering degree then I think any of it would be a great
choice because it teaches you how to think it teaches you how to approach a problem and that’s
an incredibly transferable skill that you can take into any job role because like Sharon said you can become a
project manager you know you could you could be a lot of things so I view these engineering degrees as a stepping
stone it’s a starting point that’s not where you’re going to end up in my case I I would basically choose something
that’s near and dear to your heart and and go for it and if it’s not okay if you if you don’t enjoy it that’s okay
you can you can always switch put yourself out there and do more internships and stuff like that just
explore different different areas
you’re absolutely right when you’re 18 I think you you you you think you have to
you know you backed into a corner and you have to pick a career path and but as you said you can you know there are
transferable skills um uh in it when you take stem subjects anyway so it’s it’s a fantastic area to
go in to be able to move around the industry and anywhere actually get such a worry when you’re 18 are you 100 I
know I was really worried and in the end you know you look at it you know
you look at it now and it’s like you know what it turned out just fine all these worries 10 years ago now no
exactly exactly so you have graduated and you’re looking for um your first
role are there any values we should be looking for in a company when you go out
looking for that first role um Sharon we’ll go back to you
um yeah um so for me personally I think I have a couple things I would you know
look out for to see if a company has in terms of values
um diversity is very important for me and very big for me as um I feel like
that’s one of the top um values that I would want a company a
company to have that I would I could potentially be working for um diversity I guess the also the
overall culture of the company you know how they treat it and its employees is work-life balance
um so an example could even be like social events it may be
for some people he may be kind of like a waste of time or you know they could probably be using it to maybe gain
profits or something but it builds bonds it gives the opportunities actually network with your colleagues that are
working in different departments that you could probably not have interacted with prior um another and I think this is the last
one which is also important for me in terms of company values is clear progression route I think that’s also
something that is very important that maybe is not very you know people don’t
put like so much thoughts into it it’s you know before you join a company what’s the progression that like you
know what does he have a clear plan on the targets you need to hit for you to be promoted or like what do you need to
have achieved to go to the next level and you know are there any learning you
know um opportunities for you are there any opportunities for training I feel like there’s a lot to consider but those
are my top three um values yes I love that I think I think we ask
more questions nowadays don’t they and I don’t think that’s just a pandemic thing that you know that the way that we think
about the one good work has changed I think you know in in terms of whether you’re going to be happy at work and the
culture and and quite rightly as you said all of those things are affected by things like diversity what your team is
going to be like you know how how you’re going to be sharing ideas whether or not your your week happy day to day
um and I think they’re things that we we ask more now and I think probably we
didn’t we didn’t I think especially when you’re young as well you’re thinking I just need to get I just need a job
and that’s yeah you know 100 I think people think more you know nowadays what
is it going to be like it’s not just the benefits is it you know the salary whether or not you get a pension and all
of those things yeah um just to add more to that I guess um
a reason of well for that could be you know you could be getting the best paying job ever and you’re just unhappy
that would reduce your productivity in general for that company and it would
generally not make you want to go to work and that’s a huge thing given the fact that work is almost your whole life
yeah exactly yeah yeah and just retaining good staff
as well make sure that you’re that you’re um happy in in your role
um and actually said it’s not just about pay um so so many other things filter into
that and actually is there are there any values that you look for in a company when when you’re looking to apply yeah
um yeah so I definitely would agree with everything that Sharon’s just said um completely agree with those is really
important values um I guess as well as all of those things I’d also and this I guess can be
harder to gauge um at the interview stage but look for someone that is going to be an uh a
champion For You especially when you’re starting out you know you’re going to learn the fastest and you’re going to be
developing the fastest in those first couple of years of work in your first role to look for a manager or someone
within the company that can be a mentor for you whether that’s within your team or just in the wider company someone
that will you know suggest training that you can go on bring you into meetings so you can be
present and understand more widely what’s going on someone that trusts you
to work autonomously so that you continue to grow and you get to try new
things and you get to be uncomfortable and try and really push yourself but
also you’ve got someone there that’s supporting you and believes that you have that capability because I think
it’s those those first few years of work that you know you really build a lot of
confidence in your own ability and having somebody there going I know this is hard and I know you’ve
never done it before but I believe that you can do it and you can do it really well that really goes a long way to
believing that you can do it and that you will do it well and then obviously by trying you get better at it or at
least you realize what you don’t want to do ever again um and that’s really valuable to know as well
yes because you’re absolutely right the the first couple of years they really do build your confidence or they can knock
your confidence if they’re you know you start something new you think you’re going to be great at it and actually you
might as you said not have somebody that championed you because a lot of people they say you know they leave managers
they don’t leave jobs they tend to leave managers so if it’s somebody that you don’t align with or just you just don’t
mesh well with um and you feel like you know you’re not going anywhere in that company and
you’re absolutely right picking the right company knowing who your line manager is
um is is so important I think though when when as you said when you’re first out of University you’re just thinking I
just need a salary and then he quickly what your day-to-day will be like yeah
yeah exactly if you don’t like your manager it’s you know that’s it [Laughter]
I absolutely agree with everything that Sharon and Ashling mentioned I think but
I also agree with you when I was you know when I graduated and was looking for a job the only thing I care about
was having a job I didn’t really care that much what it was going to be and I
agree with you when you say nowadays people look at it differently you know they want to see if there’s a diversity in the in the company is there a
progression plan those are the things that I now look for when I search for jobs but that’s not necessarily what I
did way back when I also agree with Ashling on having a good manager that
really helped me in my early career because my first manager was amazing shout out to Kay he was fantastic and he
really oh he really helped me install this confidence in me and just you know putting myself out there a little bit
more so yeah just really make or break moment in in your absolutely absolutely yeah
yeah I’m we’re going to talk a little bit about uh tips and tricks for adapting
from University um into you know your first proper job it is a baptism of fire sometimes we
think we’ve learned everything that we need to know at University and then you get into your first job and you think oh
I was not prepared for that um star and let’s start with you do you
have any you know tips and tricks to how to adapt from University into your first
role um I guess I went through that just a couple of months ago
um did you feel that way when you came in did you think oh gosh I thought I was prepared but yeah definitely I feel like
with uni you have more flexibility um you do have classes but you don’t
have classes nine to five or you don’t have classes nine to five every day um so I guess my initial like feeling or
reaction once I got off when I finished uni I said my first job was excitement I was so excited
but it is a lot it’s a lot you need to know how to navigate your colleagues you need to know how to actually speak to
them you need to learn how to speak to be heard I feel like that’s also a whole different ball game you also need to
kind of lend patience and learn when to speak up for yourself because you can easily be shot down in
um in a work environment I guess there’s that but in terms of the pros
um you know you I think I was talking to Ashley in like a couple days ago about this and she was like you know you don’t
you don’t have to um work during the weekend that’s a huge Plus
you know with with uni if you have exams I guess you’re going to study every second of
the day there’s there’s no difference between weekend and weekday really it’s just when you actually have to shop for
classes but you know just putting all that aside um I guess those are things I needed to
wrap my head around when moving into the Corpus environment and I hadn’t done place I had not I had not done placement
before I had only worked in part-time roles and I think part-time rules is a bit different because you know I I just
worked in like Sainsbury’s for example you don’t need that much um
skills soft skills as you do working in a corporate environment working very closely with other people and I didn’t
start on a graduate scheme so I started with I was working with people that were maybe twice my age so it’s kind of like
when they tell you to do this and you have so much workload how are you able to navigate through that how are you
able to kind of like prioritize your time because your time is yours you have to learn how to prioritize it and make
sure not to fall behind so it’s a lot to wrap your head around in the first couple months if I’m being 100
transparent but I do think it gets better with time you get more accustomed
to it you know what works for you you know what to say when to say it and yeah I think that’s what I would say about it
yeah I I’ve heard that before about um prioritizing time and that your time is yours because sometimes I I’ve heard
that one here ladies say you’re getting a job and actually when it’s your first job you don’t realize that you’re allowed to prioritize your own time and
that you don’t have to you know keep taking everything that’s given to you by your manager and if it is exactly you
need to speak up exactly and you don’t you don’t know but it takes a while to
navigate really doesn’t it definitely I agree I’m asking have you ever
experienced something something like that when when you joined um the the world of work uh what kind of
tips and tricks um would you share um yeah so I think
um definitely when you first join uh you know the first company when
you’ve graduated that definitely don’t be afraid to ask questions because what’s expected of you at University is
not necessarily the same or it’s not necessarily presented in the same way as what’s expected of you at work you know
if someone says can you write a report or write a summary that’s not necessarily the same as your coursework or the report that you work wrote for
that module at University so understand what the parameters are and don’t be
afraid to ask questions you know what does this presentation need to look like what level does it need to be pitched at
does it need to be you know the same as my research project in final year or does it need to be you know a digestible
weekly you know slide that just summarizes what I’ve worked on you know
what does that look like as a company um and you know you’ll get to know those things the longer you’re there but it
also helps if you just ask those questions up front so that you can understand that and then I think that
also leads on to sort of knowing your audience and understanding that pitching
things for different people within the business you’re pitching things to a different level so if you’re
um talking about something with one of your peers somebody else that’s
at the same level as you you know it can be very casual and you can just sort of
um have a chat about what you’re working on your line manager may also want to
have a really informal casual sort of update meeting with you or you may find
that it’s much more formalized and then if that goes sort of above them then it
might be additional layers of preparation required but I think just
understanding what different areas of the business require and how that needs
to look in order to be um yeah to be put across correctly
um but again don’t be afraid to ask questions and find out what people are actually looking for yeah because people don’t seem to mind
uh when you’re new do they I mean no no question is meant to be uh no no question it’s a stupid question if
you’re still asking them several years in then that’s the problem
but when you were first starting the majority of people seem to be quite open
to helping don’t they so um I suppose it’s just uh as as we would
say Michelle and just kind of navigating your your way through you know the all the things that you don’t learn at
University like you said just knowing your audience knowing who you’re talking to dealing with hierarchy they’re all
skills we don’t we don’t learn when we’re doing our degree exactly and let’s
go yourself um what what was it like for you is it is there anything that that stands out
for you for me I think and what I would encourage people to do you can actually
start preparing for this work life whilst you’re still at University by taking internships or or doing placement
years and stuff I think that’s a really great way of exploring if this
particular job role is for you like for myself I did a um I did an internship in the
logistics department at Procter and Gamble way back when and I realized you know what this isn’t for me and that’s
okay like you just move on to another one like it’s it’s just it’s just good having that
exposure and and put in the practice of the knowledge that you’ve learned into a practical
you know world yeah just experiencing lots of experience and lots
of different things 100 try something else yeah which I think it’s not a mindset of of a lot of young people I I
had a lady a wonderful lady on here um and she said to me I I realized after University I didn’t have a gradual
opportunity and she thought she’d failed because she didn’t have an opportunity to receive a union and it just seemed
ridiculous you know she got snapped up by a wonderful company and um I think in her mind there was a set
path and yeah and that’s what you you had to stick to um but like you said that path can
change and and you can move around all the time and and everything is um should just be seen as an opportunity
um um in terms of networking uh do you
think that having a network is important and how can our listeners go about building a community I must admit this
is not something I thought of when I was at University it was something that I
heard about more once I got into the world of work and people started saying go to network build a network but it’s
not something I thought of as a graduate would you ladies agree with that Alaska
I can see you nodding straight off yeah yeah I certainly didn’t hear it it’s
just now that I’m a little bit older I’m I’m like hearing these words more and
more but networking doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to go out there and go to these networking events networking
is everything that you do it’s the it’s the little chitchat that you have you know in the morning in the in the in the
kitchen with your colleagues all of that is networking and I think you should work on these little relationships
because the chances are that in the future that person we’ll find you another job that’s just
that’s what networking means to me yes yeah actually it’s these peripheral relationships that you don’t even
realize all of this is networking that you’re making I love the fact that you said it’s not just networking events
Ashlyn is that something you agree with yeah that when I was younger that filled me with Dread to think
[Laughter] yeah so um it being in business development now
I uh I go to a lot of trade shows I meet with a lot of people that are external
to the company whichever company I’m at um and I think obviously that’s
fantastic exposure it’s great to build my network in that way but also it’s you know meeting a friend
for coffee as Alyssa said it’s uh you know that that person that was on your course at University that’s now working
at a company that you’d really like to apply to and you can see them doing uh
having a career path that you’re really interested in and you can reach out to them on you know you’ve got their
WhatsApp number from that group project that you did in final year or whatever um it’s it’s not just formal
ah today I’m going to build my network it’s everything that you do and I think just by by being Pleasant and being
um approachable in the workplace really goes a long way to
um building a really robust Network um rather than just going you know this is an official networking
opportunity which I think are fewer and far between rather than just I met someone and
chatted to them exactly and Sharon do you have it marked on your calendar as ashleen said I’m
going to build my network today do you have it marked that way or is it something that you’re gradually starting
to do now um I would say straight from uni I think
I’m around my third year um of uni I started becoming more aware of LinkedIn and I think that is an app I
would say is very important personally very helpful as well
um I think that’s actually how I got the role from Rambo from LinkedIn so
um LinkedIn is you know I think it’s just easy you can just maybe you see
posts that people have liked or people have commented on and if you feel like that’s something you relate to or if
it’s someone you’re interested in knowing you know how did they get into project management for example it’s
literally just a message away and that is networking everything is sort of underneath that bracket of networking as
well you can easily just drop a message and say oh I’m interested in this line of work how did you you know enter the
role are there any particular um um courses I should be taking is there
any way I can you know just all those type of questions that those are part of networking
um I completely agree with you in I’m not a fan of actually going in person for networking events I feel like that
puts a lot of pressure but I mean I do think if that is something you’re interested in then definitely go for it
but I think it adds a layer of pressure and it’s not easy to be formal for an
event throughout of it so that is interesting like like aliska mentioned you know just
seeing people in the office you know speaking to them for a couple of minutes just having that sort of outgoing
personality um making sure people know you know you’re approachable because in the future you may never know who you need
or even in the present you may never know who you need help from so it’s just very easy I think everything kind of
boils down into networking yes so
um you you mentioned a little bit about uh when you’re new and trying to make
sure that you’re heard and that you have a voice um I wanted to ask you a little bit about
sometimes as a junior you can feel like um it’s quite hard to feel like you have a voice so do you have any advice on on
how to build that confidence how did you build that up yourself um speaking from a personal
experience on how I grew um or what happened to me rather I feel
like the more you grow in that particular job the more confident you are
um you have to be a little bit uncomfortable at some point you have to be willing to put yourself out there because the fact of it is once you get
comfortable and confidence in your work you get more confidence in yourself because you know you can deliver what
you need to be delivered what you need delivered to a high standard so once you
keep on doing it day to day the more you grow in it the more you know you put yourself out there to go for events that
you know you don’t have to go to but if you go it will require some certain like level of work more work to do or just
something like that’s not too much work that you know it’s not a lot for you to it’s a lot for you to handle rather but
just kind of putting yourself out there it could be you know I’ll use myself as an example when I recently joined
Bramble a couple months in I my manager assigned me to a project well two
projects that I’m managing um it is very easy to want to shy away from it because that’s a lot of
responsibility and it has to do with you speaking to a lot of people who are very like far more experienced than you but
it puts you out there it makes you you know want to learn what to do in improves your public speaking improves
presentation skills because that’s of what my role is and taking on those two projects that’s what I had to do on a
daily basis even having to do kickoff meetings with monitoring officers it’s you know it’s very nerve-wracking at
first having to prepare slides practice slides but as you do it one time two
times you become very it’s very easy it’s like second nature to you now so I feel like that’s how you grow to be more
confident you have to just keep working and once you’re confident in what you’re doing you become confident in yourself
yes I I agree with everything you just said there and actually um Ashley and you said something similar
earlier about being uncomfortable Sharon just mentioned there about being uncomfortable to move forward to grow
confidence is that something you would agree with you even if it’s not a manager putting you in an uncomfortable
position it find ways yourself to move forward and it just means you do
occasionally have to feel a little bit uncomfortable at work yeah definitely um I think if you’re
uh yeah if you’re feeling uncomfortable it probably means that you’re growing and that you’re developing a new skill
and I think obviously it can go too far the other way and if you’re spending every second of the day you know feeling
really uncomfortable and really overwhelmed then maybe take a step back and say no to some things but I would
say in general say yes to opportunities that come your way and definitely if
I think I would trust that if somebody else is trusting you to do something then you should
trust that they think you can do it well and therefore you will be able to do it well
um because you know if you’re working in a business
um then you know everybody wants you know everybody’s there for you know ultimately the same goal and that
they want to work they want the business to be successful so
they’re not going to put you in a position to fail because that will then reflect badly on the business so people
will only put you in difficult positions because they want you to grow and they want you to succeed
um so I think you just have to trust in yourself that you can do it and they wouldn’t have
asked you to do it if they didn’t think you could too yeah that’s a lovely of reframing something instead of thinking
oh my gosh you know that’s really not helped me unless you mentioned that in a Critic earlier
um and I think we’ve all had that feeling where you think oh no that didn’t go well yeah
I agree with the girls there’s only one way to grow and become comfortable is by putting yourself out there and doing the
things that makes you feel uncomfortable I look at my career and I know for a fact especially the first year of my
career I probably shied away from a lot of things and you know and that probably
slow down the my career trajectory a little bit because I was too shy and I
thought that my English is not too good and this and that big presentation in front of big bosses would absolutely
terrify me I would spend three evenings three nights before preparing for all of
this it it was it was a lot but eventually you get used to it you get more comfortable and one thing that I
would add to it if you get too comfortable it’s probably time to leave and move on to to another job and maybe
crack on with something else because again looking bad and looking back at my career that was a point where in my in
my first job there was a point where I got too comfortable and perhaps stay for far too long when really I should have
leave like a year before that um so yeah that’s what I was just add to this that’s a good point actually when
you get too comfying feeling and I said you don’t want to feel uncomfortable all day but
if you’re too comfy yep maybe it’s time to to look for something else to leave
um what about navigating tricky conversations how can first-time jobs uh
navigate those tricky conversations in the workplace you know things like pay promotions
um managing work-life balance if you’re quite new and quite young that’s they’re quite difficult conversations uh to have
your manager um Sharon how would you feel about that how do you think you can navigate those
conversations um so in terms of I will try to break it
down and separate pay promotions work life balance Etc um so for walk-life balance let me just
start off from there I feel like you need to learn how to say no so you don’t pick up
um more than you can handle I know we’ve been talking about workload workload but I think it’s also very important because
it’s very easy as a first time worker to want to over impress so you kind of take
on work that you’re not sure you can deliver or the law of work is being dumped on you
and you were just too shy to say no so I feel like in terms of learning how to say no you could sort of navigate how to
say no a constructive no not just saying oh no I can’t do that maybe something
like um I’m a bit busy with maybe XYZ at the moment and I’ll not be able to get to
that task until the end of the week for example or I will not be able to get to that until the end of next week because
I’m doing ABC so it gives more context and it’s you know it’s respectful but
it’s also you laying your ground is you saying you know you can’t take up that work at the moment so it’s basically
seeing you saying no boy in a constructive way so that’s very important I think it’s something that
needs to be incorporated um in terms of things like pay and
promotions I think it’s very uncomfortable well I find it uncomfortable personally
um I do think it’s an uncomfortable topic slash subjects but I think you need to
fight for what you believe in or and what you think you deserve um I think it also links back into the
confidence that we’re talking about a few minutes ago once your confidence in your job or in your role and your
confidence in what you can deliver then that confidence will make you know what you deserve in that job role because if
you know you are 100 going to be able to um deliver above and beyond and you’ve
been doing this for let’s say a year the the odds are you probably want to be
promoted you probably want to be able to take up something higher you want to be able to you know have more
responsibilities take on more responsibilities you have more um experience now you’re not just new
into the role you now know what everything is you know what everything entails what is expected of you you can
probably even maybe start discussing you getting your own team if that’s something you’re interested in but it’s
just you guessing I think everything still falls back into confidence and it is very uncomfortable 100 percent
but I guess it gives you it’s something that you know pays off at the end and it gives
you some skills like there’s some certain soft skills that you learn from just confronting you know I guess I
wouldn’t really tag it as confrontation but it’s it can’t come off as that because I know some roles you would have
to say oh they would literally ask you maybe why do you think you deserve the promotion and it’s like you having
confidence in what you can you know give to give in that job and then you staying stating it to them you know this is why
I can do this is what I’ve done in the past year that’s why I’ve been able to deliver this is how it has helped the company or this house has helped my team
and that is why I feel like I deserve a pay rise or a promotion
yes and I think um good companies they recognize good talent so it’s normally just fine that
you’re asking for what you feel you deserve and it’s a sometimes it’s just a good exercise to to lay it out and to
you know what you do and what you’ve done over the last year for instance um because if it if you do get a no and
you do feel like going somewhere else at least you’ve laid out everything that you did and when you go and look for the
next jobs you know you have those skills um already there and as you said you know you can demonstrate your value
um because you’ve had that awkward conversation um
conversations or you know how how do you navigate those in in the workplace yeah
um definitely had a few uh conversations about pay and promotions previously
um and I think often often they can be really uncomfortable
but also I think it’s really easy to build them up into some terrible
um terrible conversation that’s um you know going to
leave you I don’t know there’s going to be some terrible consequences because you brought it up
um and it almost makes it worth worse than it actually will be in real life
um so I think in order to go in and feel a bit calmer rather than going and going this is I
know this is going to go badly from the start if you go in as Sharon said knowing you’re worth and also being
really prepared so you know looking if you’re talking about pay look at sites
like Glassdoor or similar and look at what other people in your role or the
next role above you are being paid at you know in similar locations in uh
similar sized companies similar job titles um you know what what are other people
in the similar sectors being paid um and what could you expect um and then also I would say try even if
it’s not gone your way that time try not to leave with just a flat out no try and
leave with a well not this time but if you do this this and this you can be ready for
that promotion the next time we have this conversation let’s review it in you know the next quarter or let’s review it
um when you feel like you’ve achieved those goals um you know because there could be a really good reason why you’re not ready
for it it could be that that’s the way that the company’s always done it and then I would say challenge that because
why is it done like that if you’re um if you believe that you’re worth more than
that and they’re just saying that’s not procedure then maybe it is time to move
on um so yeah I think always try and leave the room without with obviously you want you
want to come out with what you went in to get but if you can’t get that try and come
out with almost a checklist of if I do these things then next time it will be a
successful conversation there’s great advice because otherwise you’re just going to leave the room
feeling like really deflated being like I’m I’m immediately leaving going to look for
for my next role um whereas you’re right if you have those goals and then the company still
doesn’t meet you there when when you know whenever it is in a couple of months then you think maybe this isn’t
the company for me then um perhaps I’m not going to progress as much as I thought I did but you’re right
is this at least you know putting that stake in the ground and leaving that meeting with something and Alaska is
that something that has ever happened to you or have you had the sort of conversations yes I had this awkward
conversation in the past I actually got promoted and the amount of money that I
got in terms of like pay rise was so minuscule and I remember feeling so
deflated I remember feeling like you know what I just got promoted and this is the pay rise I feel like kicking
off I’m gonna kick off and so I did I did have that awkward conversation
with my manager at the time and I just got that flat out no um and I tried really hard but I
ultimately it made me realize you know what it’s time for me to leave and that’s okay
um ultimately I think these conversations shouldn’t be that awkward If your manager is cool you can work on
a plan to you know progress within because a lot of companies have certain payments so there’s always a way around
it but they were just not very accommodated and willing to do that and
that was okay one of the things that I do find tricky and have also made that mistake in the past is
salary negotiations when you when you’re in the um what is it called when you’re in the
um the interview is the word
good for you reaching thank you um that is a mistake that I’ve made in
the past where I was given a number and I thought this is amazing and I settled
that is a terrible thing nobody should ever do this and since then I have really educated myself on
this topic and how to go about these conversations because I’ve made this mistake twice now and nobody should do
that mistake yeah because I think you you just kind
of hear that hear the number and you settle and you think all right I’ll wait a year and then maybe are you leaving
money on the table and that’s that’s what happened to me yeah amazing so we are almost out of time um
so we wanted to ask you ladies one um final question do you have any final pieces of advice for our listeners
um Alexa that was a great piece of advice there to going back in and asking for more I hope do you have any other
advice for for our listeners um I would say look if an opportunity presents itself
and if it scares you it’s probably a good idea uh don’t let these self-limiting beliefs to stop you from
the things that you really want to do um that would be my advice amazing Ashley yourself final piece of advice
uh yeah I think I would say uh don’t don’t be afraid to be uncomfortable
um and yeah don’t be afraid to put yourself out there um and challenge yourself to to do the
next thing um because that’s when you’re going to grow and that’s when you’re going to progress
definitely sharing yourself um I would say
progressing from education from just being you know from just uni to
corporate environments is definitely never racking it can be uncomfortable and you could make you anxious but you
know that’s life and you know um a stepping stone once you’re making a huge stepping stone like that because
that has the probability to Define kind of the rest of your life it’s good for it to be over um not overwhelming for it
to be uncomfortable because that means you’re learning a lot you’re entering a new phase of your life
there’s a lot to learn you know you have the whole world ahead of you so just
count down choose what you want and if it’s don’t feel the pressure of
wanting to know what you want to work in or what industry you want to work in immediately there’s a lot of time left
for you um you have a lot of time to experiment and see what sticks or doesn’t
yes and everybody’s feeling that way we all feel that way we’ve all felt it
you don’t have to pay so early on if you’re not the only one that’s thinking I don’t know what I want to do with the rest of my life a lot of us don’t know
exactly fabulous we are out of time ladies I could talk all afternoon on this so
Sharon ashleen alesco thank you so much for joining me today to chat it’s been
an absolute pleasure and it is flown by so thank you for joining us thank you
thank you and for everybody as always to everybody listening thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you
again next time
