We all recognise that there is a severe lack of female representation in STEM – currently, women only make up 24% of the STEM workforce.
But what if these women never even make it to employment in STEM?
Women leave science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) fields at much higher rates than men do. This so-called ‘leaky pipeline phenomenon’ suggests that more and more women are progressively lost at each stage of their STEM career, from education through to leadership roles.
So what can be done to tackle this ‘leaky pipeline’ once and for all? We sit down with Dr Andrea Johnson, Chairperson of Women in Technology & Science and VP at Workhuman, to discuss what support structures need to be in place, how to prepare for early careers and tackling the lack of female representation in STEM.
Dr Andrea is a senior director at Workhuman and executive board member of WITS Ireland. She is committed to advancing women in STEM through initiatives such as Teen-Turn and Reboot.
hello everyone thank you for tuning in again I am Katie batesman the content director at chican code and today we’re
covering the Leaky pipeline between higher education and early careers women leave science technology engineering and
Mathematics or stem fields at much higher rates than men do this so-called
leaky pipeline phenomenon suggests that more and more women are progressively lost to each stage of their stem career
from education through to leadership so what can be done to tackle this leaky pipeline once and for all I’ve got Dr
Andrea Johnson chairperson of women in technology and science and VP at work human with me today to discuss what
support structures need to be in place welcome Andrea thank you Kaylee thank
you for joining us come on come and kick off with a little bit of background about yourself please yeah so as you said I am the chair of
women in technology and science uh I’m VP at work human
um I’m the mama of five rescue doggies and two rescue donkeys and I’m a
long-suffering epiphonian so that should actually give you a flavor of the spectrum of my depths and joy here
wow I haven’t heard that one yet um in terms of uh I mean you obviously
have a passion for animals um did you have a passion for stem or
was that something that you discovered from an early age or something that you fell into we hear a lot of ladies fall
into it uh I fell into it I was a mature student so I went back to uh well I went
to University at the grand old age of 30. um and I remember as I was taking my
degree I got given a really great piece of advice I wanted to be a I.T and or
maths teacher and on the open day I remember the guy saying to me go and take a general computer science or
information assistance degree don’t do your teaching degree I remember at the time feeling utterly discombobulated
that’s kind of what I’d had my heart set on I was always going to be a teacher actually a history teacher
um but I did take his advice and I over the years found myself giving others that exact same advice about doing a
general degree and then you have options open to you obviously then um postgraduate options if you want to go
and teach or do research or anything like that so I joined the class and I was in a
little cohort of mature students what we call them um and I remember I didn’t know it was
called that at the time but I think for the first 18 months I just thought someone was going to tap me on the
shoulder and say Asaf girl what are you doing here you shouldn’t be here um and it’s imposter syndrome at its
absolute best but I I really did I found my tribe there there was other mature
students some girls who had families who were juggling work and we kind of stuck
together and it was phenomenal and kind of that passion around women and
advancing women in stem kind of came from that very late on if you like
um you know looking to see how difficult it can be to access and then actually
step into careers in this area yeah yeah which is something that um we we hear a
lot on something that we’re going to cover a bit more in depth today um because research to yes you know an
incredibly high percentage of female stem graduates they leave their careers here early on why why do you think this
is I think there’s a number of reasons on that I was speaking to the CEO of Health
Tech Ireland the other day and she comes from a Medtech Pharma background and
when I was asking her about sort of the grants who fall out within that area it’s very much as they’ve come through
their training they’re expecting something different when they get onto the bench in a lab and it’s not that and
it’s actually really Stark and completely different than what they had in the head and a lot a lot of them will
leave at that stage so I think it depends if you think about the pipeline as young women Advance as
you leave your um course and you think you’re armed with all these fabulous things and
you’re stepping whether it’s into industry or Academia sometimes the reality of
that Kaylee is very very different and it can be actually quite jarring it was
um we have a fabulous guy here in where human who’s one of our Architects and his daughter is studying at one of the
fabulous schools here in Ireland and she’s doing mathematics and he he’s he’s
really and that she’s one of five in the class women and she’s found that
difficult as she’s gone through that now she’s top of the class she’s phenomenal she is her father’s daughter
um but she’s found that sort of the interaction and the social side of that and it wasn’t a stay until year three
that she really sort of found a stride and and you think you see that in the
experience around that feeling of other and that feeling different uh it is one
of the big pieces in that and if you can actually get through your college experience and then go into industry I
think we all think that that will change and it will be different but actually then depending on what industry or what
environment you step into it can actually be more Stark and more jarring
um which is when you’re young it can be utterly discombobulating so what what can we do
I think we have to put in some really great structures around that where it’s
around networks and kind of that normalization and and I spoke to you
before about the power of finding my tribe the three or four you know mature
students who who went through that experience I think the power of that cannot be underestimated I speak about
the power of finding your tribe to women returners to work and say you know the
women that they’re on the course with they will never meet other people who absolutely understand where they are
right now because they’re sitting next to them and they’re thinking and they’re feeling exactly the same thing
so I mean I think that first step out of sort of whether it’s graduate or
postgraduate education into industry or other work sometimes that can be really
really jarring and I think that you can absolutely you need to put some supports around that I think I think some of the
other pieces then that you want to maybe pry apart in that is how you support
people on that Journey so how you support them into the first people leadership role or promotion or or into
even flexing into other areas I’m sure I mean I’ve listened to some of your podcasts you’ve touched on it before our
careers aren’t linear this isn’t like years ago you joined the bank you joined the Civil Service yeah 30 years in and
you’re going that’s not what’s happening now you you’re going like this I think um Michelle Obama calls it swerve
doesn’t she and I think that’s absolutely great because it’s not linear but like sometimes you will you’ll take
a side move maybe a little one down to come back up again to get to the places
there where you want to be and I think we need to equip definitely equip our humans in sort of
that real that style of thinking about that and taking on those stretch opportunities where they can do that and
building in supports around that as well and yeah and you’re right that that’s
further than that career being able to change careers nowadays is is a great thing because you’re right
you sometimes you’ll leave uni you you don’t quite know what you’re going to get in the world of work and actually
you don’t know whether or not you’re going to like the first job that you get in anyway and it can be such a shock
that at least thankfully nowadays especially in technology there are lots of routes for you to to keep moving
around and you can think or actually that that one wasn’t for me whether that was um something to do with the company that
the job itself or like you mentioned perhaps you felt out of place um but thankfully you know you can you
can move around a little bit I remember though that that baptism of fire when you reach work it’s it’s frightening
anyway when you’re a graduate and you never really match the skills that you learned at Uni bring them into the
workplace because you have to you know prepare for whatever that first team and how they work together
um and it’s it’s it’s very daunting and I suppose you know workplaces try to to
bridge that Gap um as much as they can but you know what I mean in terms of
um what we can do you know what what more can higher education do to prepare
female graduates for the world of work because it is it is always that worry
isn’t it when you you go into the first job and you think so I wasn’t prepared for that I’ve got the skills but I
wasn’t prepared I I wish someone would have told me the importance of networks and the
importance of I mean if someone would have told my younger self uh you know
networks are important I would I would have had this vision of me in a room with a business card in my hand going to
you know having to talk to strangers and that would have filled me with also dredge believe it’s all believe it not
I’m not talking about that I’m talking about making meaningful connection and
making those connections and being intentional about them because that’s how you’re going to get this kind of
network of support that you can sort of build around you and in a really
authentic way do you know what I mean because I I often have people
um young Professionals in the business reaching into me saying that will you be my mentor and I always take them for a
coffee and we have a chat and the chemistry’s got to be there like you’re literally saying yeah you know could I
work with them could they work with me this isn’t going to work actually there might be someone else who could be way
more suited to this um so that authenticity I think is really really important but building
those networks and connections means that if you’re faced with difficult
decisions or problems you have other folks that you can go and lean into and
it just means you’re not alone trying to figure this out and it’s very much like that usually there’s very few things
that’s gonna you know you’re gonna encounter in the world that someone else hasn’t been through so you’re actually
really thinking about me maybe ringing you and saying Kaylee I’ve got this thing going on what you’re thinking you
see God I haven’t got a clue but you know what I know someone who can do this and really starting to sort of stretch
into that Sisterhood if you like of making those
connections and being really authentic with them I I’m always allowed to call that
networking because again it takes me back to me and me power suit me red lipstick with me business cards and me
and filling me with absolute Tara Kaylee like you don’t want to do it it’s not that it’s like that meaningful
connection piece and I think we should really talk about how we can do that how you can join groups that may be lean in
circles or coffee connections or things like us where it’s an easier lift but
all of a sudden then you’ve maybe got opportunity to do that and I think that’s really really important but going
back to the point that you said there about you know how ill-prepared and how that how maybe people get there I do
something really great here once a year so we run something we work with an organization called team turn and they
bring in transition year students and they’re showcasing the world of work within a stem fast-moving fast-paced
organization so it’s work human and what I do is I do
um I do an afternoon tea session and I invite a load of our lots of different
women across the business to come in and chat to the to the girls that we have
and one of the things I asked them I go around the table as we’re eating our scones and I say what got you into your
career and how did you get there did you want to be a senior automation quality engineer
from day one you know to me like will you popped out and that’s what you wanted no it’s not and I should go
around the table there’s something really really interesting some people on them maybe the development side they
knew this is what they wanted to do they they knew they were going to go into engineering science and that was that
others have fallen into it in a different way the biggest the biggest influence
of parents and for I don’t know whether it’s um representative or not but the biggest
influence of parents when I go around the room in my organization where human is dance
I say Dad said do you know now for some of them it would be Computing wasn’t
really a thing at the time and it was like this computer thing sounds great you should get going on that and then
obviously later on they mean they realize technology is a thing and I know accenture’s done some
research in this space around the importance of parents so I know your question to me was about schools but I
think this is a schools and a parent conversation and how do we
educate parents that they can help structure some of these conversations about options very early on
also working in tandem with schools who have a wealth of information there but
they have to navigate all this in order to to find and present and distill down
you know you know different options that students have so I think it’s both but I
think you cannot Overlook the importance of a parent or someone’s significant in
in you know young person’s life that says actually you know you should think about this you seem to have a real skill
in that space yeah and even if they don’t work in the tech sector themselves but they’ve heard something good about
it and they’ve mentioned that as a career choice because there there is that problem
um you know we do have a PR issue sometimes with the tech industry and people hear negative things and um you
know if you haven’t got parents uh promoting that to their children um as a good career then you’re
absolutely right it you know they pick up things from from uh their parents or
what they see on on TV or just somebody that that can step in and suggest that as as a really good career option and
one of the things that we do at wits Kaylee is like we have a very strong
um student membership because it’s free and we and we try and bring our students with us once they leave um obviously the
the student base that and they’ve gone into work we like to keep to keep our membership
and one of the things that we’ve done very successfully in the last few years and it’s actually been run by one of the
product directors here we’re human who’s on the board at with Martina Campbell she really wanted to open up we do a lot
of kind of show and tell days like here’s all the things that you can do in this industry so we do engineering we do
Pharma we do technology and on the technology one a couple of years ago she
actually introduced the role of product manager now for those Technologies out there be
like that’s not attacked but all of a sudden then it was actually the most well attended session that we had that
year around this because this was how do I get into that I didn’t know you counted this as Tech this is something I
want to do I love the idea of design thinking I think I’d be really good at this I’m really great with people and
all of a sudden we were away to the races so this year we’re trying to do a very different role so we did a whole ux
series last year as well so we’re coming away from them as more traditional
software engineer software QA scrum Master roles into these more
um well they’re really quite sexy some of them aren’t they like product owner ux type roles because that’s the whole
Suite of these are the the kind of creative thinking and the different people that you need in technology and I
think if you if you have parents or people that you really rely on and they’re not in that industry they don’t
know that you you don’t know what you don’t know and so how can we sort of get this kind of this isn’t about coding
there is so much more in there too is if you want to cope brilliant but there’s so many other different layers to that
that we need in order to have great products and really great solutions to
some of these big oil problems yeah yeah we hear that so often we’ve had um quite
a few project managers uh on on here and some of our videos um for chican code as well and you’re
absolutely right it’s that it’s that sweet spot of you don’t have to be technical but you have to at least
understand how the product works but you don’t have to build the product
um and it’s it’s that that nice place that a lot of people just didn’t realize um existed and you know I I was going to
ask you next about what support employers can give to graduates as they step into their first jobs but you know
you mentioned they’re a little bit just about even just showing graduates the type of roles that are available
um because it’s that is far more valuable than say a work experience day you know we’ve all been
on a work experience day where you get left at the shredder or the photocopier and that’s your day and you don’t
actually learn you know what’s gonna what the company does or what everybody does what their jobs are
um so actually just you know taking the time to share what all those different roles are and for them to make the
connection and start thinking actually that one might be the one for me is far more valuable for for an employer to
start with shortly and also the Journey of how you got there because again I’m gonna I’m gonna pick on my automation QA
colleagues and they’re like yeah that’s twice she’s done that what’s going on here I mean I mean they weren’t in
college thinking this you know they’ve gone through the course
and thought I’m actually really go to this and it’s not it doesn’t kill me it seems to be killing everyone else in the room why isn’t it killing me and they re
and they’ll start to pick at that I I think you know we have some phenomenal product managers to hear that came from
an engineering background we also have some um really brilliant engineering managers
they would have been sort of scrum Masters in a previous title and again they’ve come from very different
backgrounds some of them are from Pure product management others have come through that sort of that engineering
space as well but they have that thing that you have that you’ve just said there which I think is really important
they can translate they can translate from those business teams into the
technology teams and translate that backwards so they’re really good about listening and and turning this round
into something else and that’s a real skill and all those sort of transversal
skills those value-add skills we should be talking about them as as well as as
you know as students are leaving you leaving College it’s not about getting 90 in the module and you’re going to be
great at doing that you need great communication unless you’re going to sit in a room on your own and just code all day and
that’s okay but at some stage you have to give it over to someone you know and explain how it works yeah really good
calm skills and be be way more comfortable in doing that and one of the things I know when we do team turn here
is that they’re on site for two weeks the first week they go home I always send them home early on a Friday I never
put anything in on the front they’re exhausted exhausted the fast pace of work
I mean it I I don’t think you realize because you’re in it every day you’re
going from room to room I could be whiteboarding looking you know drawing on the walls which always even I’m 55
this year it still feels naughty do you know to me you’re drawing on the walls and it’s you know you’re looking at this
sort of database design and then I could walk out of the room I could go in to do something around
design Theory we’re looking at something new within the product what does that look like then I could go into a people
leaders conversation so you you’re context switching all the time as you’re
moving from room to room I don’t mind moving around this building because it very much gives me the time to think
okay I need to think about that later I’m walking into this now this is what I want to do that blows their mind that
first week that they’re going from one thing to another and it’s so fast moving and and it’s great to form in terms of
the lunch and the breakfast and they can play pool but they’re exhausted exhausted and I think to showcase the
world of work today where you’re seeing in an organization
like work humor which is very human-centered and people-centered but like it’s it’s tough it should like we
have a full day and there are things that we’re trying to solve and you’re honest all the time and I think that’s a
really important thing to show and showcase as well because it becomes less jarring than as you’re stepping out of
Education yeah when you have that first day and you’re like oh my God word I was so tired today and yeah
up and then nothing stop and you’re absolutely right because when you join you’re not you’re not thinking of those
things as well you’re not thinking of um how busy your day is going to be or that you’re allowed as well
um to take hold of that role and to prioritize your tasks and that you don’t have to do everything at once and all of
those things you haven’t learned those skills yet you know it’s quite overwhelming when you get in and you
think I’ve got to do all these things and I don’t know that I’m allowed to you know just um organize my own day
um but also you know just just having the space I suppose just realizing you
don’t think when you graduate I need to look for a company that is going to not
look after me but at least keep an eye on my mental health and whether or not I’m burning out and you don’t think of
those things as a graduate you just think I need to get into a good role and that’s it and you’re absolutely right if
you see what somebody else’s day is like but you also pick up on the fact that that company is very aware of what what
that person is doing and they’re trying to make sure that even though you know you might have a very busy day at work
human your company would still look out for you to make sure that you don’t burn out
um and as you said there’s that support network as well but there are things you don’t think of as a young person but I
think that’s becoming more important Kaylee so we did some where human did some really great research last year and
it was one in Four Women didn’t matter what stage in the career so you’re talking entry 11 through to VP had said
they will consider leaving their organization if the A diversity inclusion and equity
as strategy didn’t make a noticeable Improvement in the first part of 2023
and I think this is in direct response to coming back to work returned to the
office trying to get that balance really trying to keep hold of those heart for
wins that we’ve had in terms of that flexibility which is we know is especially important to women uh women
who have children women who are in full-time caring occupations so that is
really Stark that wonderful women are thinking I need to see improvements here otherwise I’m going to think about going
all ages now so I think it’s becoming increasingly important that values are
starting to lie not these are my values and are they learning up to this
organization that I’m going to work for and it’s funny because uh I can’t remember where it’s
seen the research but I know even graduates now are looking at company core values and seeing so let’s say
they’re big on sustainability if they don’t have a sustainability value then they’re they’re quite that’s a question
that they’ll have to interview so I think you’re starting to see that come through which I think is great
because again it goes back to the point we said before about that feeling really
authentic in that connection not only to the people that you’re working with but to fundamentally the company that you’re
working for yes you know if you don’t feel that and you’re at odds that’s always going to be incredibly difficult
and very very jarring as you step into your career yeah and and that leads them
nicely into the topic of mentorship because actually when when you mentioned before about networking and you turn up
with your business card and that is what I thought networking was as a young person and didn’t realize that
networking is not just to get your next job or you know that that uh it’s not
what what you know it’s who you know that’s what I used to think as a young person I must you know make sure I know
a lot of people that are going to help me get my next job you’re absolutely bang on there that it’s far more than
that it’s far it’s it’s more about finding that support network to help you with anything in your career and just to
make you feel like sometimes that you’re not the only one that’s feeling a particular way
um it’s you know mentorship in that way can be invaluable so you know do you think mentorship and female role models
being more visible could help plug that Gap I think we need to be more visible and I
know we’ve really come on in the last you know three to five years you’re seeing way more of this but I I think we
have to be more on a part of apologetically intentional Kaylee in this space and where you are
setting up opportunities if you think about when you were really young and you were like me you had to go into a room
with the business card and you’d be filled with dreads imagine if you would have been given an opportunity to join a
coffee connect where it’s it’s women the same age roughly same industry and you’re going
in for a coffee in a Biscuit you would have absolutely have drawn that you know to me like and obviously it was in the
days before Zoom I know your younger listeners listen to this like were the days before Zoom there were a wild love
and you get in there and you’d have a coffee and you’d have a chat I would have done that over going to a
conference and having to speak to all these strange people I think there’s different ways we can do it for
different levels of comfort and for different personality types and I have
really close friends who are very introverted I know you’d find that hard to believe but they are you know and
they’d say to me oh I couldn’t do that what you do but like they’re phenomenal phenomenal
allies these women like they’re worth the waiting absolute gold so I think there’s that easy and mentorship
opportunity that you should absolutely go and do and really challenge yourself to do it and I know it’s difficult
but then as you move through your career I think there’s a change I wish someone would have sat me down and told me that
there’s a there’s a difference between mentorship and then as you’re going through your career well actually you
may start to look for is sponsorship and uh it was actually Dr Anita Sands we
have her in to work human she did a phenomenal talk and she’s really articulate in this space about what the
differences are and that was articulous but that difference between mentorship and sponsorship and being really tuned
into what that means mentorship is obviously someone you know shoulder to shoulder helping you through
something where sponsorship like you don’t have to be in the room but they’re going to say really good things about you and I think that’s really really
important um for me again that would I wish someone would have maybe sat me down earlier to say actually the thing you’re
looking for there is sponsorship you need sponsorship when you’re not in that room and decisions are being made
about you and about your career and everything else that you’ve got these really strong allies in the room
speaking for you and again I think it’s being a little bit more intentional about that
yes like you’re you’re right that’s something um that I only found about
um about sponsorship um probably only a few years ago and and you’re right
everybody talks about mentorship and making those connections and and making time to have that coffee with somebody
that would be a great Ally um but you know if you’re if you’re in a company uh and you’re
um one of five females in a huge company and you have lots of male sponsors that
are above you that are talking about you um as you said in the right rooms in the right way
um then that’s that’s absolutely you know just so valuable for your career and something that you’re right I think
a lot of young people didn’t realize can exist um and can can really help your career
um in terms of those skills you know what skills should graduates be honing before they start on their career
Journey many you know the young ones in stem now they’re really tuned into that
continuous professional developments they know they’re not in and done like they’re going to have to especially
within Pharma and Tech they’re constantly updating their skills and I think that’s absolutely and you want to
stay curious and you want people to keep it up all the things we’ve been talking
about today I’d love you to look at that through the lens of that CPD I’d love you to think you know I’m going to read
that book on audio or I’m going to listen to that podcast it’s nothing to do with technical it’s nothing to do
with science not but actually it’s about me it’s about allyship it’s about how
you make authentic connection it’s about oh someone told me that she was really good on that podcast I must listen I
think we need to encourage people to do that because if you if you
put that energy into it around thinking well something will something will strike something will hit home and land
and you’ll think oh my goodness I could do that and that won’t kill me I could do that and that could actually make a
difference and I think you need to try on different things but it’s not one shot and you’re done either Kaylee I
think that’s why and as you move through your career you need different things at
different times I have a wonderful executive coach called Maurice Whelan
he’s actually a super super friend and a member insane to me years ago tell me
about your personal board and I said he was like tell me about your personal
well you’ve been telling me all about these and amazing people that you have around you who do all these different
things to me they’re your personal bot tell me what you get from them and what
they have in common and as I walk through that Journey with them it was a real eye-opener because all the things
that I’ve spoken to you about today meant to ship allyship sponsorship
making meaningful connection that’s all those people on that board that’s what
they’re responsible for and they they nourish you they support you and you get phenomenal energy from them and they
really are when we meet in larger groups they could rule the world I often think
about that when we’re all together I think actually I could leave them to rule the world we’d be in a way way better place but that idea of personal
board is is a really it really resonated with me because these are a close Circle
and usually you’re relying on them for certain things and so it’s about putting
a little bit more energy in that but actually really thinking about it yeah this is I know I go to x when I want to
know a little bit more about this I know when I’m talking about maybe trying to shake things up within
that sort of women and science piece that I actually have two or three go-to’s that I’ll bang these ideas are
because they’re always really super up to date and they’ve got the same types of energy that I have and I think that’s
important as well take these people with you on your journey yeah the effort into keep those
relationships going because they serve you well and they make you so much
better it’s very difficult to do this on your own very very difficult and if you have
these support systems other than family and colleagues you have that concept of
your personal board I think it just makes life so much easier Katie to go and execute on some of these things yeah
I mean I was going to ask you about advice for those starting out um in your career but actually that that’s that’s
um really good advice to think about your personal board I don’t think it’s something that a lot of us do I think we
just move through you know our careers and and as you you mentioned there when
I said that to you who came to mind straight away for you someone would have come into your head straight away as I
said it
the extension of that is are the people on your personal board who aren’t
serving you well and sometimes people look at me and then they might start to cry and I’ll be like but again I think
it’s a really great conversation to have with yourself around these are the people who nourish
me encourage me and give me strength to go and do these things
um you know over and above my day-to-day yeah and then when when the data gate
gets tough you have these people that maybe aren’t your colleagues and aren’t
your significant other that you can actually you know pick up the phone and say well we need a little bit of help I’m looking
this um oh don’t worry again I oh yeah no that’s awful that’s awful but here’s
what you can do and I think that is really really important but it has to be authentic
yes and and that they come from as you mentioned all all parts of your life
it’s not necessarily um that colleague uh the wonderful colleague of mine that’s sprung to mind
um it’s those that are um in your personal life and and you know even
those that you um your neighbors or whoever it may be you’re absolutely right it’s
um as you mentioned in that um expression at the start which is something we love that that tribe that
you bring together um that really supports you through um in terms of the uh plugging the Gap
should we should we plug that at the source we’ve spoke a little bit about
um you know should we be encouraging more girls into stem subjects you know
early on is that is that early enough to get started or you know by the time they
reach uni is that is that too late I think it’s too late I mean I think this is a multi-faceted problem and we need
to go by as early as we possibly can um and showcase
you know really strong Role Models uh which has just done a brilliant uh sort
of P stem role model project where we’re um showcasing sort of um physics and all
that piece down really strong Role Models here in Ireland and I think that’s really really important same base
but for me one of the things that I’ve really agitated for in the past couple of years at the European level is
there’s some brilliant things going on Kayla you have them on your program so you know there’s some and I call these
pockets of pure fabulousness really great programs bitter joined up thinking
and we could get a lot of Attraction a lot of traction and I think if we could do joint up thinking at a national and
European level all of a sudden then these aren’t pockets of fabulousness in
a corner these start to become mainstream and I know like funding is
incredibly tight for everyone at the moment but if we could join the dots across some of this stuff it would make
such a difference make such a difference so I think it’s a multi-faceted big
hairy problem um and we should absolutely the further
we can go back in terms of showcasing and role modeling very very early on trying to turn young women’s
heads towards stem and really break down that those barriers in terms of what
that actually means I think it’s great but if we could actually join up some of the really great programs out there I
think we could actually get way more traction so much quicker and that’s one of the things that we try to do from our
human perspective and a width perspective is bring people together and really try and tie the bow around it and
see if we can get something going yeah and we spoke a little bit earlier about parents and and the why especially that
a dad can have um in Spain young girls into careers but
do you think that girls are choosing not to pursue a career in stem or are they
being excluded from the system I I think it’s a little bit of both I
think I mean there are certain schools where you wouldn’t maybe have physics
options which is like here in Ireland there are schools where young women can’t take physics at a higher level but
it’s just not offered in school so if they want that they’re gonna have to move schools now you know yourself then
it’s like well I’m going to transplant myself from my friends and you know the football club and everything else so I
can go and do physics yeah it’s quite nice you really need to want to do physics to do that and so I think that
there are barriers like that I also think that there’s a lot about peer pressure where you know you’re
going to go into arts or Humanities and you’re going to be creative we need creativity within stem it’s the
fundamental of what we do but I think we really need to bring that alive to people around what that looks like
um and you know really ignite the imagination around that and if you can
do that earlier the better it’s very difficult to be doing that you know as
you’re taking your options into o levels a levels or leaving certia in Ireland
it’s very difficult you want to have got to them before that yeah because even you earlier mentioning about um ux roles
and product managers very creative roles and something that you wouldn’t necessarily think of as creative in
technology but again it is one of those roles that um people people don’t know about and they don’t see enough
um but you know so we we we always think here you know you can’t be what you
can’t see and it’s having those role models that are doing those jobs and that are there they’re over going into
schools or you might see them on TV or you might see them on a program and they might be a speaker a careers fair that
you’re at as a student um do you have any role models you mentioned Michelle Obama earlier
um you do have any brilliant role models that that um that are you know we should be aware of
um my own personal Role Models would actually be maybe members of my personal
boards I mean they’d be really close friends who are just phenomenal she knows I mean he would uh
they they just I don’t know where they get their energy and commitment from I I I’m going to give you an example of a
role model that blew me away uh the the start of covert wits had uh we put on a
with work human a um senior leadership female program so
we had different senior female leaders coming in to talk right the way across
the stem disciplines and I said we need to kick it off so we’ll kick it off with someone and someone said we actually she’s a wits
member and she’s absolutely super she’s our citizen astronaut here in Ireland noripam
so I said great so we got on with Nora said Nori we kicked this off for me love she said absolutely means related to him
she’s done cartoons and she’s really the kids love that I said great so start of covert and the kids were out so she did
the kickoff and I hadn’t thought about I thought we were going to get questions at the end
but obviously all the kids were off school and we went ran way over and the
feedback from that was she had talked she’d done a talk through and started talking about it
phenomenal like blew the thing up all together because she captured their imagination and you know the emails that
we got I’m gonna go on now and do something about space I’m going to be like Nora I’m asking Father Christmas
for an astronaut suit for Christmas and you know when you talk about Role Models Sometimes they come in very
different shapes and sizes than the things that you’re thinking about are Michelle Obama or these really strong
you know women this woman is changing the face of how young women in Ireland
view science yeah and it was phenomenal to see and it
wasn’t our intention like she’d come to kick off this very you know Hefty serious female leadership uh program but
just blew the thing away absolutely and I think you know when you when you look at someone like Nora who’s young she’s
just started the family um hoping to do some more work with her she’s phenomenal that’s what you want
you need that energy and that just some someone that can fire the imagination
and I know that day she would have changed it might only be four or five
but she’s changed the way those children think about science yeah and it’s like
phenomenal uh so I mean I think that’s the type of person that you’re looking for when you look at those Role Models
yeah and even if they don’t go into that particular role she sent them off on a
path of discovery of the roles that are available in that area
um yeah it’s I think the more that we hear about people’s roles and what they do and how exciting they can be
um the better for for the young girls um uh um coming up the pipeline when we
talk about uh those um that networking
work human IQ which is basically the academy which underpins has 20 years of
our data did something phenomenal for me and actually I think that I can show you this
um but when you think about what we do is reward and recognition and
that meaningful connection I’m celebrating you you’re celebrating me
when you actually visualize that and you look at a female Network
compared to a male’s Network there’s a huge difference in gender so
females have significantly larger networks they have a more gender balance
Network and the networks are way more cross-functional cross-department
going up and down the hierarchy across the piece and I’m going to show you I don’t know if you can see on that’s a
visualization of a female’s Network oh yes I can say oh yeah oh yeah wow and
you’ve seen a male like a Norris spidery it’s phenomenal to see and all those
points are obviously people and all those pieces are those connections and that’s what the work human IQ Data
obviously brings to the service if you think about that the more spidery
your network the better yeah but we seem to be able to do this innately and I
think you know when we go back to that messaging about mentorship that’s what you want to be doing you
want to be anything up with a a network that looks very spidery and look like someone’s run all over the page and it
does stand to you as you move on yeah lovely and that is lovely advice to end
on because we’re already out of time so thank you so much Andrea for joining us it’s been it’s been an absolute pleasure
to chat with you today lovely thank you so much Kaylee thank you for having me thank you and for everybody listening as
always thank you for joining us and we hope to see you again next time
