A company’s culture is an incredibly important aspect of your working life. We spend more time with our colleagues and peers, than our family and friends, so finding that perfect company should be top of your priority list when it comes to job hunting.
More often than not we focus on the negatives and red flags at organisations, but in this episode SheCanCode are asking what green flags should we be looking out for?
To answer this and to give us an insight into a positive company culture, is today’s guest, Louise Newbury-Smith, Country Manager for UK and Ireland at RingCentral, a leading provider in cloud-based communication and collaboration products for businesses.
We will find out what green flags you should be looking for in job interviews, whether company culture is important, and what you should do if the fit just doesn’t feel right.
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hello everyone and thank you for tuning in again I am Katie boatsman the content director at chican code and today we are
hello everyone and thank you for tuning in again I am Katie boatsman the content director at chican code and today we are
discussing how to know if a company is the right fit for you a company’s culture is an incredibly important
aspect of our working lives we spend more time with our colleagues and peers than our family and friends so finding
the perfect company should be top of our priority list when it comes to job hunting and today I have the wonderful
Louise Newbury Smith country manager for UK and Ireland at ring central to help
us identify not just the red flags but the green flags that we should be looking for when searching for our next
role welcome Louise hi Kaylee great to be here good good
we’re we’re very excited to have you here and um what an exciting uh topic to
discuss today as well but before we get started can we just hear a little bit about yourself and your background
please of course um yes so I am the as you said UK
country manager for ring central um I’m in my just approach my fourth year at ring central I joined as the
regional vice president running the Enterprise sales function and the team
are selling software we provide unified communication and contact center
software as a service and so that’s message video and phone in one app that
can be used on any device um and during my tenure at ring central
I’ve also progressed now to um area vice president and that brought with it the UK country manager role as well so a
very exciting time at ring central so far well and if you’ve been there for a few
years already then you yourself must have found a culture that fits and is
right for you um which is obviously and what we’re going to be discussing today and so
we’ll move on to the first question because the discussion goes incredibly fast and when we do podcasts so
um if we can get started with is company culture an important factor when looking for a new role
I think it absolutely is um one of if not um the most important factor it’s got to
be equal to the job itself and the remuneration package so hugely important
to consider the role of the um the culture of the company and um of the
team itself that you’re joining when you’re considering a particular role yeah I think it’s well when you
interview um you you can quickly spot what a culture is going to be like just by you
know the even the HR person that you’re speaking to in the first round of interviews and funny enough whether or
not they sound like they enjoy their job um they’ve been dragged on that call to
get you for through the screening process are there any you know good signs to look out for in a job interview
I think first of all having done quite a few interviews myself um I think it’s really important to look
at whether the interviewer takes the time and makes the effort to put you at
your ease and that is wholly the interviewer’s responsibility and the
reason they should want to do that is because you want to be able to and they
should want to see your authentic self and you can’t do that and you can’t
wholly be yourself and you know what is a pressured situation let’s let’s face
it if the interviewer doesn’t put you at ease right from the get-go so that would be the first a good sign
to to look for yeah I think people forget don’t know that that obviously
you’re being interviewed but it’s important that you you know take a moment to step back on that call or in
person interview as well and think you know what do I find that person warm can
I be myself at this company you’re you’re absolutely right it’s not just you know am I being interrogated by this
company it’s so um are they going to offer a mean environment where I can really be myself yeah completely and
it’s also really important I think for the person that’s being into interview to remember that they should also be
looking to see if that role in that company is a match for them so the first interview is hopefully a
fairly informal one to to see and to check for both parties whether
um it’s a match for for both of you in terms of what you’re looking for yeah and so so if I’m interviewing somebody
I’ll spend you know as much time trying to understand what it is that they’re looking for what they want to get out of
the role and because that’s hugely important yeah I think that gets you do that more
as well when um you’ve been in the business a little while I think when you’re a graduate and you’re just applying everywhere your only fault is I
don’t care you know I don’t care what the salary is I don’t care what the company is like because I don’t actually know what a good company looks like at
the moment and you know I just need a job and the the more that you go from
company to company you you start to realize that actually the interview process is not just for them to find the
right candidate it’s for you to find the right fit and I think that takes a little bit of experience though doesn’t
it a graduate that’s not going to have that at first I just need a salary yeah and and that’s absolutely fair enough
and of course that comes with experience and interestingly um I did some interviews a few months
ago for our intern program and that’s the first time we’ve done the intern program in the UK for at ring central so
I’m really proud of the fact that we’ve got three interns that are doing being fantastically well at ring central and
one of them said to me um you know join the interview fully suited and booted and uh which was
really sweet to see yeah and then admitted to being absolutely terrified and and uh yeah I wish you could totally
understand so we spent the first few minutes first of all me saying to them actually that if you’re terrified that’s
my responsibility to make you feel comfortable so that took the pressure off that person straight away and then
you know just talking about uh why that particular role was of interest to them
what they were looking for rather than um you know an interrogation it’s quite
interesting to hear that you said one of them was suited and booted um which is is lovely to hear and
actually something that you you don’t hear much of anymore especially when we have you know Zoom interviews and we
don’t really do in-person interviews and it’s actually just having that practice
as well that practice of interviewing and chatting with potential employers
and not always you know taking it to heart if you don’t get something but just seeing it as just a really good way
to check for your skills uh with with another potential employer
um and you you were also discussing um some good signs to look out for in it at
an interview I think that’s a good sign that somebody comes suited and booted I mean that’s really you know very keen
that that in turn was I hope he got the position so yes one of the positions so yeah we had
the three interns that we took on through that process and I really hope it’s something that will continue and we
were really clear that you know it’s an investment from them and it’s an investment from us our aim for that is
that they’d come back and rejoin us after graduation so and then we’d carry
on supporting them through their career so yeah I’m absolutely delighted and they are absolutely all three of them
are smashing it out of the park so where and that in itself is so rewarding and
really lovely really lovely to see but yes it was a bit of a surprise to see what a totally suits the booted but very
lovely and that they put that level of effort in and I think the other the
other thing that is really great to see is when people come to the interview with some prepared questions that they’d
really thought about and then it gives you as the interviewer an insight into what’s important to them as well and how
um you’ve between you fathom out whether you’ve got a match on on the role yeah and not just you know
the obvious or things that you would never ever ask such as salary um or you know you might get young
people ask uh ask a question about hours or anything like that you know things
that where like you said they’ve really done their Research into the company um and they sound like they’re somebody
that really wants to invest not just in that company but in your culture as well have you had any funny questions or
anything that sort of Springs to mind that sticks with you in an interview I
always tend to ask you know what is it that you like about your job because that tends to put the interviewer on the
spot and actually they think um you know if they’re rubbing an ring then actually there might not be a
company that hasn’t any benefits but nine times out of 10 they come forward and say you know we’re incredibly
flexible that really works for my lifestyle um you know whatever it is that they like about their company but um yeah
it’s always interesting to hear what other questions that you hear yeah I do get that one quite a lot actually which
is yeah I agree with you it’s a great one for um an interviewee to ask and I’ll most frequently answer it with you
know what what encouraged me to join RingCentral but all of the accolades that I saw
um but the reason I Stay is because of the people yeah and the incredibly
supportive culture that ring central has um genuinely supporting
um in particular women to progress their career in in our sector where we are
underrepresented and ringcentral’s actually fantastic for that for building
a completely diverse culture and it’s something that we talk about it’s one of
the key kpis that we have for our business that we talk about on our
quarterly Business Review um but when you take it sort of back a step from the you know the numbers and
what it looks like it’s how you feel on a day-to-day basis when you’re you know
interacting with the teams around you you know do you feel valued do you feel like you can contribute you feel like
your voice is heard you know all of those things uh really count for the culture and also just whether you have
fun yes we spend so much time here if you don’t have fun it’s really hard work
so I I think that’s incredibly important yeah it’s interesting that you say the
way it makes you feel because you’re absolutely right you can go for an interview and a company will reel off
all the things that they do in terms of diversity and inclusion and you know all of these different groups but it’s a lot
more than just slack Channel it really is just the way that you feel daily and whether or not you know you look forward
to coming to work and what you get out of it in the day and whether you finish your day feeling uh like you achieved a
lot or you know completely frazzled at the end of the day and it’s only Monday um so what benefits uh and perk should
potential employees be looking um be looking out for you know should that be remote working flexi time what
what kind of things I mean we mentioned there is more than a more than a slack Channel what should they be looking for
um so I think it’s a really personal thing they’ve got to work out what is really important to them and I think
there’s some some questions that they can ask that will surface the type of culture of that particular organization
you can perhaps ask the interviewer you know how did you handle working environments during the pandemic you
know and have you then continued flexible working offerings after that
and so that gives you um gives you an idea as to the culture
of the business and you know because clearly lots of people had to provide flexible working and you know for
obvious reasons through the pandemic and that actually accelerated the industry
our industry is a unified Communications provider um by by about five years really you
know lots of businesses that you wouldn’t have thought were doing it had to do it and prove the model but then
have they continued it have they changed their policies in order to be able to
support that so is it truly embedded in their culture
um so how did they handle um you know flexible working through the pandemic have you continued that
offering since then and have your teams got access to everything they need in
order to work from anywhere because saying it and doing it in practicality are two totally different
things yes and a business has got to provide that in order for somebody to
work effectively from wherever they want to so I think that’s really important as well yeah not to have those those
um tech technical headaches also not having the the
um not just the technical headaches that come with it but knowing that you have a team uh on hand
that you can turn to as well there’s a neighbor in my street who I was only spoken to recently who told me
his wife actually um retired early because when after the
pandemic as you mentioned a lot of companies changed over to flexi working and hybrid working
um but his wife was really struggling with the fact that she didn’t understand um how to do things and as she was in
the office she could you know physically go over and ask somebody and she said she just didn’t have that support at
home and she actually decided to retire a few years early because she didn’t feel very supported by her company and
the culture just didn’t it just didn’t transfer to you know working from home
and then the changes that happened so you’re right it’s a lot more than just talking about things and actually on the
day-to-day do you feel supported um do you feel isolated
um and you know that that’s where that culture really starts to kick in when when the problems start obviously yeah
definitely and you you also asked me earlier about you know benefits some and
perks and something that that ring central started during the pandemic was what we call the Care Ring day
um so we gave in a lot of businesses did this they gave a a day for you to take
some time out of yourself because I think what people saw that flexible working and working from home
um it brought with it a different set of challenges in terms of uh you know the
lines between work and home were suddenly blurred and people we find are actually working
longer hours yes and you know not stepping away from it so that’s
something you need to have a little bit of self-discipline about I think as well but in order to give some of that time
back make sure that people have took time out for themselves and the business
implemented once a quarter a caring day so in effect four extra holidays
um we had um we had a well-being week actually which completely blew me away
where every every day during um a week in October
the business had different webinars on different topics so one of them was
managing your work life balance another one was that was actually on managing grief which I thought was a really
interesting one and Incredibly supportive to offer and then there was a totally going in a different direction
there was a dance class that was done oh wow it was literally something for
everybody during that well-being week um and RingCentral also provides access to the headspace back as well and I know
that that’s been um fantastic you know valuable for for our people so what else
is the organization doing because we give a lot and we give a lot of ourselves
um so it’s really nice to understand how the business would give something back yeah well that’s quite a variety as well
from dance um through to managing grief both equally as important as well I I had a a
really interesting conversation with a lady only recently who was talking about grief actually and she said um people
don’t always understand that it’s not always um when you immediately lose that person
it it’s sometimes a couple of years later as well you might notice a dipping
the way that you work or um in your enthusiasm for for your job
and working from home and and then having to go in the office you know it’s all completely different
um in terms of how you deal with things and mental well-being so yeah that would
have been a really interesting um topic to have as part of your well-being week
um one that we probably don’t don’t talk about enough I think so and uh what we’ve found is
all of those things are kind of um you know culture cultural items that the business is trying to Foster
um but they’re also informal ways of uh spreading the culture a culture comes
from each of us individually and so uh there are lots of other groups that
people have have set up across the business so I set up a group for equestrians at rig Central so we should
we share what we do with the with the horses but I know that there’s a photography group as well and then
there’s another group that’s a book club there’s another one for art and people have done all of these themselves but it
um it Fosters the culture informally you know it’s not controlled by the business in any way it’s it’s but it’s driven by
the people um so there’s all sorts of ways that you can be part of and also encourage a
culture I think yourself when you once you’re in that organization I’m sorry I
think that’s a great one um for potential candidates to understand when they’re looking at a
business as well as you know look on Glassdoor and all of those things as well to get to get insights into that
company yeah and you’re absolutely right that that creating a culture creating
your own culture as well because you’re correcting you know you you pick a company
um with a culture that you think is going to be a great fit but then if you you’re able to create groups like that
that really brings a part of you you get in those meetings you don’t talk about anything work related you talk about
whatever it is uh within that group that you will connect on I remember I worked
at a company and we had a prayer group and it was just nice to talk to somebody
about something that wasn’t work and um it was just 20 minutes to get together
um because it makes such a difference in in your day to just to connect with
people because we used to say during that company remotely and I’d never met anyone and we used to say I only know
Zoom you you know I I at that point um I only knew Zoom people you know he just
knew nothing about them you knew them for five minutes on a morning call and that’s it but you’re correct if you if a
company allows you to create a group where you can talk about hobbies and and other things and yeah that would be be a
great a great perk yeah and we’ve spoken a lot about uh employees
um what are some green flags when it comes to job candidates so you know what what are employers looking out for
well I can only answer that from from my own perspective uh Kelly so let me give you my view on it
um primarily I’m looking for a great attitude
um you know somebody who wants to contribute somebody who wants to bring something to the team and I put that one
first over um you know Knowledge and Skills because
you know we can we can give that we can provide that as ring central and you
know any business could help somebody build their skills and give them knowledge but if they come with that
great attitude and that attitude to learn then they’re halfway there anyway
um the the next thing that I would look for um are the candidates that that I’m um
fortunate enough to meet I want somebody that shows me that they take accountability for success in that role
you know that they don’t leave their Destiny in other people’s hands um so really really taking ownership
um you know for where they want to go or where what they want to be and I find
that when um you know I’m coaching and mentoring people as well you know lots
of folks have got ambition but they don’t necessarily articulate it
um and they’re waiting for somebody to tell them that they’re good enough to do something or that they’re okay to go and
apply for that role um and you know when you ask them you know why haven’t you gone for that yet
oh not not sure whether you know I’m not 125 million percent qualified for that
role yet yes the experience but of course you’re not
you’re not doing it but you know have you got 50 off topic can you learn the rest so you know somebody that’s got
that um you know that want and that desire uh you know to take accountability for the path that they
want to take and then lots of people will then get behind them to support them to achieve that that’s just the way
it actually happens um I love people to come to the table with ideas
um you know and the ability to express those those ideas the absolute last thing that I want is a team of clones
yes that that is just a disaster you know
with only one you know view of the world so you know that’s why having a diverse team from lots of you know people with
different backgrounds different economic backgrounds as well um so all of those things I think are
really important because then they’re providing something that complements the rest of the team uh you know with a with
a diverse diverse experiences as well yes absolutely and something that we
very much promote um at chican code you’re right if you have the same person over and over again you’re always going
to get the same ideas you nobody’s ever going to come forward and realize that
one of those ideas is actually a bad idea until it you know it’s released and then there’s a PR nightmare
um so yeah absolutely um it just makes the team as you said right at the start as well fun your
working days is so much more fun if you work with um a diverse team and uh you know those
that you never quite know what they’re gonna say or what they’re going to come up with um yeah it’s super fun and it’s really
important obviously to to pick the right company um for you but should employees take a
job where they don’t fit in with the company culture will will that last long term I can imagine a graduate thinking I
just need a job but you know if you’re a few years in is that wise I thought I
thought you might ask me this uh Kelly and I’ve been giving it some thought because I think it’s a really tricky it’s a great question but it’s a really
tricky question um for me personally um I wouldn’t take a job uh where I
wouldn’t fit in with the culture um but I’m at a different place you know in my career as you pointed out you know
graduate just might need a job and need that experience and everybody needs to put food on the table
um I think you could if if you could identify the fact that it was a means to
an end for you and you’ve got the strength of character to cope with it
because it’s not easy uh you know if you find yourself in in that environment or
you embrace it and you try and influence it yes yeah yeah I haven’t even thought
of that you’re absolutely right you can get in and and try and change you know even your immediate team if you see
something that you think isn’t working yeah yeah and I think that you know if you talk to people
um you’ll soon identify that you’re perhaps not the only person that’s feeling like that and so you know get
get your manager get your group together and start to make little changes and
I’ll tell you about one that um that really just makes me laugh uh even to
this day we have a weekly all hands it’s just a half an hour call although it runs over most weeks but we we’re doing
the All Hands in response to the ringtone survey that we do which is to get feedback from the teams as to how
they’re feeling and the areas that we as a management team can improve so we did the All Hands to try and help with
communication between departments but having spoken to a lot of people that joined the All Hands they primarily
join it for the 10 minutes of banter that we have at the beginning that’s
interesting so we’ve notified that people are getting on earlier before the call
starts because they get to talk to different people that they may not you know work with on a day-to-day basis
yeah and so and it’s really nice to have that it can non-hierarchical you know
banter everybody’s the same we don’t do it as a webinar so that we’re just pushing information we do it as a big
video call where all the participants can contribute and periodically at the
end of the call we sing Happy Birthday to whoever’s birthdays of uh
now if you’ve ever tried to coordinate a couple of hundred people singing together
it is absolute disaster so do you sound like a choir that’s that’s not ring
central uh uh talents there that’s not your area no you don’t normally ask
people in their interview process and I don’t think we’re putting ourselves forward
for The X Factor anytime soon but but it finishes the week with absolutely
everybody laughing um you know because it’s that bad we’re all laughing at each other together
um and uh you know if there are one or two people that may just do a little bit of Comedy factor in there uh you you can
spot those in my life but I just I love that I absolutely love that part of the
of the week we are we’re running out of time actually so I wanted to
um I wanted to ask you one last question that’s okay um do you have any advice for those who
are questioning the their fit in a company um how long should you give yourself a
new job if you’re thinking it’s not quite right for you yeah so I think I
was given some advice um Years Ago by my um by my dad and he
said you should give any new role six months as a minimum because you can’t
judge it before then and of course you’re going to feel uncomfortable
um when you when you first join a business uh there’s so much to learn so you’ve got to give yourself a chance
to get through those natural stages um I do think it’s incumbent on the
organization to onboard people really well and so but not everybody’s got
those uh you know amazing sort of processes and supporting teams in place like we have so you I would definitely
recommend giving it six months and making sure that you’ve got you know a two-way uh feedback interaction loop
with your manager to truly understand and to be able to speak openly about
what makes success for the role uh you know what does the organization need and what do you need as an individual to
feel you know successful and and to feel like you’re progressing and that you’re empowered and I think if you can get
that feedback loop going and then you’ll get to a more comfortable position quicker but don’t
stay there forever if it’s not the right fit take take what you need from it be
clear about that in terms of you know your your own sort of uh plan
um and your career goals and as I said earlier be accountable for that so take
control of your own destiny so don’t stay somewhere forever where you’re unhappy uh because that is that would be
a truly miserable existence yeah so I was just going to say I think people worry don’t they um what it will look
like on their CV if they’re not somewhere you know for a few good years um and if they just decide after six
months this isn’t for me but I think you’re absolutely right if mentally you’re very unhappy with the way that
something is going and you’ve already checked out in your mind anyway and it’s only a matter of time where it starts to
reflect in your work and your career as well you know why why would you stick around a place where you you’re really
not happier as we mentioned at the start it’s where you spend most of your day and your time
we are out of time thank you for the opportunity to chat to you it’s been
really enjoyable and I hope you listeners find some of it helpful yes thank you well um thank you so much to
Louise for taking the time to share um your experience with us today thank you
so much for coming along um and to everybody listening thank you as always for joining and we hope to see
you again next time
